Why do people say Zack Snyder doesn't respect comics?

[Will Evans]

Yes it was. Why do you think he lost his eye? How the hell will he be the protector of Asgard when he’s hanging with the guardians? The king is the protector. If Thor felt he wasn’t worthy why didn’t he give up the crown earlier? Why didn’t he give up his birthright after failing to stop Thanos?

Admit your bullshit. If Snyder made Superman a fat drunk playing Fortnite you’d say he hates Superman but when Marvel does it they love the characters. Even if endgame isn’t Thor’s end which is stupid as **** he can still be a vital character for Valkyrie and mentoring her. And what exactly did Valkyrie do as the de facto leader of Asgard? Because it looked like she did jack ****

Thor lost 95% of everything in his life. His mom, dad, his brother, his homeland, all his friends minus Sif who’s missing, and 75% of his people. So yes, I can see that happening to Thor.

Just as the video game makers of Injustice saw Superman going totalitarian after being tricked to kill Lois Lane, his unborn child and nuking Metropolis.

Didn’t you watch the movie, he came to that revelation after talking to his past mom, and getting out of his funk. Especially after helping bring the snapped people back.

Offscreen in Infinity War, it was Valkyrie who led the survivors from Thanos and eventually reconnected with Thor on Earth. She helped the Asgardians settle in Tonsberg, while Thor was there King-in-name-only feeling sorry for himself.

He’s protecting his people by going off with the Guardians, the same way he was between the Dark World and the beginning of Ragnarok, going off on quests and stopping dangers.

Valkyrie doesn’t need mentoring from him, she’s two generations older than him, remember.

[Dboi2001]

Thor lost 95% of everything in his life. His mom, dad, his brother, his homeland, all his friends minus Sif who’s missing, and 75% of his people. So yes, I can see that happening to Thor.

Just as the video game makers of Injustice saw Superman going totalitarian after being tricked to kill Lois Lane, his unborn child and nuking Metropolis.

Didn’t you watch the movie, he came to that revelation after talking to his past mom, and getting out of his funk. Especially after helping bring the snapped people back.

Offscreen in Infinity War, it was Valkyrie who led the survivors from Thanos and eventually reconnected Siryn Thor on Earth. She helped the Asgardians settle in Tonsberg, while Thor was there King-in-name-only feeling sorry for himself.

He’s protecting his people by going off with the Guardians, the same way he was between the Dark World and the beginning of Ragnarok, going off on quests and stopping dangers.

Valkyrie doesn’t need mentoring from him, she’s two generations older than him, remember.

Injustice is an elseworld story. We literally get the nice good guy Superman along with the evil Superman. So I don’t know what you are talking about

What dangers of Asgard will the guardians stop? It is bullshit and you know it

And remember how I’m Ragnarok Valkyrie was an alcoholic? It doesn’t matter if she is older than Thor being older doesn’t make somebody better. Not to mention she and Korg ran off like cowards. Also he left Asgard because he thought Odin was protecting it

Why are you defending the mcu so much? You’ll praise the mcu for anything wouldn’t you? Again if Snyder made Batman or Superman fat drunk playing Fortnite you’d say he hates comics

[Will Evans]

Injustice is an elseworld story. We literally get the nice good guy Superman along with the evil Superman. So I don’t know what you are talking about

What dangers of Asgard will the guardians stop? It is bullshit and you know it

And remember how I’m Ragnarok Valkyrie was an alcoholic? It doesn’t matter if she is older than Thor being older doesn’t make somebody better. Not to mention she and Korg ran off like cowards. Also he left Asgard because he thought Odin was protecting it

Why are you defending the mcu so much? You’ll praise the mcu for anything wouldn’t you? Again if Snyder made Batman or Superman fat drunk playing Fortnite you’d say he hates comics

I’m not defending the MCU so much. I have small issues with it too. Like Tony Stark being Peter Parker’s only mentor and no mention of Uncle Ben. Or wasting Sharon Carter.

But those are small details that don’t impede my overall opinion on it.

I’m not sure if you’re reconciling why Thor’s failure at the end of Infinity War and the beginning of Endgame, brought him to that point.


Look at Nolan. Nolan made Bruce give up being Batman between Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises, but due to what happened in Dark Knight, I can see his reasoning. And I don’t think Nolan hates comics. Same thing with Thor.

And to get back on topic, the topic of this thread is about Zack Snyder and his opinion on the source material.

[Dboi2001]

I’m not defending the MCU so much. I have small issues with it too. Like Tony Stark being Peter Parker’s only mentor and no mention of Uncle Ben. Or wasting Sharon Carter.

But those are small details that don’t impede my overall opinion on it.

I’m not sure if you’re reconciling why Thor’s failure at the end of Infinity War and the beginning of Endgame, brought him to that point.


Look at Nolan. Nolan made Bruce give up being Batman between Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises, but due to what happened in Dark Knight, I can see his reasoning. And I don’t think Nolan hates comics. Same thing with Thor.

And to get back on topic, the topic of this thread is about Zack Snyder and his opinion on the source material.

There is a pretty big difference to how Nolan depicted Batman grieving and quitting and how Thor did. If Nolan made Bruce into a fat drunk playing Minecraft then yeah I would say he hated Batman. The issue isn’t having Thor become depressed in fact I was looking forward to that but how they presented it. They made Thor a fatass playing Fortnite. And him quitting being king completely contradicted raganrok’s conclusion. He was king for all about what 4 minutes? If Thor’s depression was treated seriously and he had a serious arc I wouldn’t complain. Hell I might not even complain about him quitting being king to hang with the guardians but it is all those factors combined. He was my favorite part in infinity war and the worst part in endgame but again you’ll praise marvel for anything

But about Snyder. Any tiny change Snyder makes means he hates comics as he’s only ever looked at the pretty pictures of TDKR and Watchmen. Example is that Zack confirmed on VEVO the other day Dick Grayson was dead and of course everyone complains he hates Batman comics. Now I love nightwing and would be disappointed if he really is dead in the Dceu (which may not be since David Ayer said once Jason Todd was dead and WB had plans for a nightwing movie) but apparently that one change means he doesn’t understand Batman. Meanwhile the entire spider man mythos is rewritten in the mcu and no one cares

[Will Evans]

There is a pretty big difference to how Nolan depicted Batman grieving and quitting and how Thor did. If Nolan made Bruce into a fat drunk playing Minecraft then yeah I would say he hated Batman. The issue isn’t having Thor become depressed in fact I was looking forward to that but how they presented it. They made Thor a fatass playing Fortnite. And him quitting being king completely contradicted raganrok’s conclusion. He was king for all about what 4 minutes? If Thor’s depression was treated seriously and he had a serious arc I wouldn’t complain. Hell I might not even complain about him quitting being king to hang with the guardians but it is all those factors combined. He was my favorite part in infinity war and the worst part in endgame but again you’ll praise marvel for anything

But about Snyder. Any tiny change Snyder makes means he hates comics as he’s only ever looked at the pretty pictures of TDKR and Watchmen. Example is that Zack confirmed on VEVO the other day Dick Grayson was dead and of course everyone complains he hates Batman comics. Now I love nightwing and would be disappointed if he really is dead in the Dceu (which may not be since David Ayer said once Jason Todd was dead and WB had plans for a nightwing movie) but apparently that one change means he doesn’t understand Batman. Meanwhile the entire spider man mythos is rewritten in the mcu and no one cares

If you see my post, I said Snyder LOVES those 80s post-modern comics, like Dark Knight Returns, and none else. Just the fact that he killed off Dick Grayson before establishing him (or kill off Jimmy Olsen after 2 seconds) proves my point.

So does he understand the Dark Knight Return-take on Batman? Maybe.

Does he understand most other takes on Batman and other things of the whole DCU? I would say no.

[Dboi2001]

If you see my post, I said Snyder LOVES those 80s post-modern comics, like Dark Knight Returns, and none else. Just the fact that he killed off Dick Grayson before establishing him (or kill off Jimmy Olsen after 2 seconds) proves my point.

So does he understand the Dark Knight Return-take on Batman? Maybe.

Does he understand most other takes on Batman and other things of the whole DCU? I would say no.

And having Spider Man’s identity revealed does ruin chances for him to go to college, intern with Connors, fight the sinister six or hell even have Gwen die since she doesn’t exist in this universe?

Killing off two characters hardly proves your point. First off Snyder’s saga wasn’t meant to be a shared universe like marvel. Originally it was going to be Man of Steel, BvS, Justice League Part I, JLPart II, and JLPart III. Batman was going to die in Justice League so clearly it wasn’t meant to be a decade long shared universe set up. Killing off Jimmy was just to get him out of people’s minds since another character fills his role. As for Dick being dead I’d say it’s partially because dick was is most Recognizable robin for casual viewer and because he wasn’t setting up any red hood story line or felt Batman having Nightwing would contradict his loner arc (I mean it could be worse. Frank Miller had Batman ‘fire’ Dick for being ‘incompetent’ and he became a serial killer)

If Snyder wanted to adapt DKR then he honestly failed. Ironically people who say Zack just focuses on pictures are doing the same thing with him. There are massive amounts of differences between Miller’s Batman in TDKR and Zack’s Batman in BvS. In Miller’s Batman has been retired for several years why Zack’s is still active. Miller’s Batman retired because of Jason dying whereas here Dick is dead. Miller’s Superman is a government tool unlike Snyder’s. In fact Batman is the borderline villain in BvS unlike TDKR. So I disagree

But let’s draw it back what does he not understand about Superman exactly? Do you think Tom Taylor understands Superman?

[SiegePerilous02]

And having Spider Man’s identity revealed does ruin chances for him to go to college, intern with Connors, fight the sinister six or hell even have Gwen die since she doesn’t exist in this universe?

Killing off two characters hardly proves your point. First off Snyder’s saga wasn’t meant to be a shared universe like marvel. Originally it was going to be Man of Steel, BvS, Justice League Part I, JLPart II, and JLPart III. Batman was going to die in Justice League so clearly it wasn’t meant to be a decade long shared universe set up. Killing off Jimmy was just to get him out of people’s minds since another character fills his role. As for Dick being dead I’d say it’s partially because dick was is most Recognizable robin for casual viewer and because he wasn’t setting up any red hood story line or felt Batman having Nightwing would contradict his loner arc (I mean it could be worse. Frank Miller had Batman ‘fire’ Dick for being ‘incompetent’ and he became a serial killer)

If Snyder wanted to adapt DKR then he honestly failed. Ironically people who say Zack just focuses on pictures are doing the same thing with him. There are massive amounts of differences between Miller’s Batman in TDKR and Zack’s Batman in BvS. In Miller’s Batman has been retired for several years why Zack’s is still active. Miller’s Batman retired because of Jason dying whereas here Dick is dead. Miller’s Superman is a government tool unlike Snyder’s. In fact Batman is the borderline villain in BvS unlike TDKR. So I disagree

But let’s draw it back what does he not understand about Superman exactly? Do you think Tom Taylor understands Superman?

Also Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman and Aquaman, all of which spun off from the main set of films and at least referenced them. Diana even got a look at all the logos Lex Luthor kindly designed for her teammates (lol that was so dumb) in a scene that was blatantly advertising future films. There were also the Nightwing and Batgirl movies that didn't get off the ground.

Whether or not there was an intent to have a shared universe like Marvel seems to be a source of debate, it seems we can find contradictory statements/actions all across the board. Kevin Tsujihara made some statements indicating that they wanted to rush into a shared Marvel-style universe early on and their attempts now (mostly stand alone IPs with their own sequels) is more along the lines of what they should have done in the beginning. Considering how reactionary this studio has been, it being all over the place in intent and action seems appropriate.

I also don't see the need to bring in the MCU too much in the debates. Not everyone who criticizes Zack's decisions is also a fan of the MCU. But overall fans and casuals alike will accept an adaptation, changes and all, if they deem it good.

[manwhohaseverything]

Yeah! I don't think zack snyder would be planning for something like mcu. The company would have just used his general structure or his set of movies as base to create spun offs. That might have been the case.As for diana looking at character files. It was a set up fo jl.

[Dboi2001]

Also Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman and Aquaman, all of which spun off from the main set of films and at least referenced them. Diana even got a look at all the logos Lex Luthor kindly designed for her teammates (lol that was so dumb) in a scene that was blatantly advertising future films. There were also the Nightwing and Batgirl movies that didn't get off the ground.

Whether or not there was an intent to have a shared universe like Marvel seems to be a source of debate, it seems we can find contradictory statements/actions all across the board. Kevin Tsujihara made some statements indicating that they wanted to rush into a shared Marvel-style universe early on and their attempts now (mostly stand alone IPs with their own sequels) is more along the lines of what they should have done in the beginning. Considering how reactionary this studio has been, it being all over the place in intent and action seems appropriate.

I also don't see the need to bring in the MCU too much in the debates. Not everyone who criticizes Zack's decisions is also a fan of the MCU. But overall fans and casuals alike will accept an adaptation, changes and all, if they deem it good.

Those weren’t done by Zack. And like you have a problem with the mcu sequel baiting. Look up Zack Snyder 5 movie plan. Originally Zack Snyder was meant to focus on a 5 part saga with no indication of a greater shared universe happening. This was meant to be a response to the cancelled JL movie from a while ago

And yes I do need to bring up the mcu because people who do criticize Snyder always praise the mcu how they have people who know and care about comics like Kevin Feige has. Nearly every video essay about what’s wrong with the Dceu brings up the mcu so sorry I can’t not bring up the mcu

[SiegePerilous02]

Those weren’t done by Zack. And like you have a problem with the mcu sequel baiting. Look up Zack Snyder 5 movie plan. Originally Zack Snyder was meant to focus on a 5 part saga with no indication of a greater shared universe happening. This was meant to be a response to the cancelled JL movie from a while ago

And yes I do need to bring up the mcu because people who do criticize Snyder always praise the mcu how they have people who know and care about comics like Kevin Feige has. Nearly every video essay about what’s wrong with the Dceu brings up the mcu so sorry I can’t not bring up the mcu

Where am I giving an indication that I'm overly fond of the MCU? I like some of them well enough, but I'm kind of worn out by the franchise and actually prefer what WB is seemingly trying to do now, have sub-franchises that don't interconnect.

The movies not being done directly by Zack is irrelevant. He still has a producer credit on WW, her backstory was set up in BvS, and they used the same actress he cast. Ditto Aquaman. Him doing his own films doesn't mean the others weren't connected to his. Kevin Tsuhihara stated otherwise that they were planning a shared universe early on and it didn't work out for them. Are people forgetting what was actually on screen in these movies and doing revisionist history to say this was never a shared universe?

You have a thread going in Spider-Man as well about the TASM films and how they compare to the MCU, so I don't think this is just about Snyder. You don't have to feed into the perceived problem by still bringing up the MCU yourself, and people are allowed to dislike Snyder's films for whatever reason and the MCU doesn't have to be a factor.

[phonogram12]

...people are allowed to dislike Snyder's films for whatever reason and the MCU doesn't have to be a factor.

Truth.

10 characters.

[Dboi2001]

Look here is an article link explaining what the original 5 movie plan was

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/...d-on-superman/

Fine let’s pretend the MCU doesn’t exist. What I’m getting at is other beloved superhero movie franchises makes even more drastic changes. Let’s look at the Nolan trilogy and the changes they make

- Batman being trained by the League of Shadows

- Ra’s being Irish instead of middle eastern

- “Raz al Ghul”

- No Lazarus Pit

- No Bat Family

- 90 percent of Batman’s Rogues not existing

- Bane not being Caribbean and having a different backstory and of course no venom

- Making a totally new love interest for Batman

- Obviously no Damian

- Talia’s entire character

Also like Snyder, Nolan would also make his stories composites of famous Batman stories. The dark knight Rises using Knightfall, No Man’s Land and even Dark Knight Returns a little bit. Dark Knight used the Killing Joke, Long Halloween and the Man who Laughs. Batman Begins being Year One and Man who Falls. But again people brush off these changes as this being NOLAN’S Batman so it’s ok for there to be fairly drastic changes and they’re not wrong. These changes don’t mean that he doesn’t understand Batman. Simply put he wanted this to be a trilogy and so introducing the Bat Family half of which are children is bright costumes just wouldn’t make sense thematically within this world. Likewise part of why Zack probably had Dick die was to hammer home Bruce was truly alone and only had Alfred left. I mean I feel that part of why Miller came up with a ridiculous excuse for Grayson’s absence in TDKSA. The same could even be said for the much beloved Arkham trilogy (including Origins) how much they changed like making Scarecrow, Hush, Bane, having Tim and Barbra be a couple, Jason not dying etc

But very few people say Nolan doesn’t get Batman nor the same about Rocksteady. The main complaints about Zack Snyder is he made Superman too brooding and that’s why he doesn’t understand characters besides Batman and Watchmen. There is a difference in making a bad movie and misunderstanding the characters. You can argue his movies aren’t good but saying he doesn’t get these characters is a stretch. As an example the Burton Batman movies are great but Burton only ever read Killing Joke (which he admit to it) and so a lot of important aspects of Batman like his duality of Bruce Wayne or no killing or even having Joker have a clear origin and making him Thomas and Martha’s murderer goes against the Batman mythos

I also feel “shared universe” is just a marketing ploy now. Having spin offs hardly counts as a shared universe. And yeah Snyder is credited as a producer he was like what one of 6? I really can’t find much out about how involved in these movies he was but just as a comparison Christopher Nolan is also credited as an executive producer for BvS and Justice League despite not being very involved compared to his involvement in MoS. There is also no denying Wan took liberties with Aquaman compared to Justice League like Arthur’s eyes being gold instead of white, Mera and Vulko’s looks changing a lot, Arthur seemingly dislike his mother in JL etc. so sure Wan may not have completely rebooted Aquaman since it still makes reference to JL I don’t think Snyder was all that involved in the movie same goes for Wonder Woman and according to IMDb he is listed as a producer for several planned DC movies like Deadshot, Sirens and Wonder Woman 1984 despite being done with DC movies for now. This isn’t the Snyderverse though. Him being mildly involved in a Wonder Woman spin off hardly means the original five movie plan wasn’t a thing. Like you think Fox was setting up a Daredevil cinematic universe when they made Electra?

[SiegePerilous02]

And here is an article from Kevin Tsujihara saying they planned on it being more interconnected initially than what it ended up being now:

https://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...227-story.html

That lines up with Superman's death being a factor in Suicide Squad. They were chasing the shared universe concept after the success of Marvel, there is no way around this. Or at least the studio did, if the right hand didn't know what the left was doing...that seems to pan out based on the results we got. ("The universe is not as interconnected as we thought it would be five years ago")

[Dboi2001]

And here is an article from Kevin Tsujihara saying they planned on it being more interconnected initially than what it ended up being now:

https://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...227-story.html

That lines up with Superman's death being a factor in Suicide Squad. They were chasing the shared universe concept after the success of Marvel, there is no way around this. Or at least the studio did, if the right hand didn't know what the left was doing...that seems to pan out based on the results we got. ("The universe is not as interconnected as we thought it would be five years ago")

I never said there was no possibility for a dc shared universe. However when Zack was brought on he was going to make 5 movies focusing on batman and superman. A Batman vs Superman movie has been in the works since the 90s. Like i’ve even seen people question why Snyder went with an older Batman as the start of this shared universe (despite the fact Affleck was the same age as RDJ was in Iron Man). Again Batman was suppose to die off in JL or JL2

The point is why is it ok for writers like Tom King or Tom Taylor to kill off key characters but not zack snyder? Why is it ok for Nolan to not even include Robin outside of officer Blake yet when Dick is a pretty vital part of Snyder’s batman mythos is even when he is dead that means he does not understand the character?

what about superman do you think snyder misses about him exactly?

[qwazer07]

LOL. Zack getting hated even by his fans for killing Dick. Thankfully, I didn't care about Justice League after the BvS disaster (how can anyone fail a Batman and Superman movie is unbelievable?). So I won't watch the Snyder Cut since it looks like another BvS mess.