Why do people say Zack Snyder doesn't respect comics?

[Dboi2001]

LOL. Zack getting hated even by his fans for killing Dick. Thankfully, I didn't care about Justice League after the BvS disaster (how can anyone fail a Batman and Superman movie is unbelievable?). So I won't watch the Snyder Cut since it looks like another BvS mess.

bvs wasn’t a disaster. if Feige made it you’d praise it to the sky. JL isn’t going to be a mess. you’re just a mindless hater.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Bounding into Comics is a website aligned with Comicsgate, a conservative group who harasses women to gatekeep the media for themselves.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...ach/comicsgate

In a series of emails to BuzzFeed News — which he apparently leaked to comics website Bounding Into Comics — Van Sciver denied allegations that he was working with anyone aligned with far-right ideologies, or that he shares these beliefs. “I find racism deplorable,” he said. “I find bigotry disgusting, and I have never engaged in racial politics or ‘Naziism.’ My children are Jewish!”

They're trash. Find other sources other than this and random You Tubers, Dboi.

[Dboi2001]

Bounding into Comics is a website aligned with Comicsgate, a conservative group who harasses women to gatekeep the media for themselves.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...ach/comicsgate



They're trash. Find other sources other than this and random You Tubers, Dboi.

here you go

https://cosmicbook.news/justice-leag...five-movie-arc

https://screenrant.com/zack-snyder-d...eague-trilogy/

https://batman-news.com/2019/01/11/z...tice-league-2/

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...-place-movies/

Also maybe use a real news site instead of buzzfeed

[Dboi2001]

How exactly does Zack killing of Dick prove you’re point he doesn’t care about anything besides post 80s gritty stories? If that’s the case what does that make Nolan’s where the closest “Robin” we got was a cop who worked with Batman a few times?

[SiegePerilous02]

bvs wasn’t a disaster. if Feige made it you’d praise it to the sky. JL isn’t going to be a mess. you’re just a mindless hater.

Feige wouldn't have made something like BvS. The general public is already predisposed to like Superman and Batman, they are the most well known and popular superhero icons, it's hard to **** that up and somehow WB/Snyder did just that. MCU did more with less, and that is pretty embarrassing.

There's a lot of mindless bashing of the MCU, or the belief that everyone who dislikes Snyder's films is a mindless sheep who only likes the MCU. It reeks of "green eyed monster."

[Robanker]

bvs wasn’t a disaster. if Feige made it you’d praise it to the sky. JL isn’t going to be a mess. you’re just a mindless hater.

It was. Regardless of who made it. After having seen four Snyder films (five if we count the ultimate edition), which is roughly ten hours of his work, I can say with some confidence that he's not a very intelligent director. He makes a lot of statements that are deep on the surface and very shallow when examined. He's a popcorn director with greater aspirations but without the ability to pull it off. He can do good work with the right people reigning him in, but DC was not a good fit for his take.

You can disagree and defend your points, but once we start accusing others of being drones and guilty of petty bias, this leaves discussion and becomes an immature case of white knighting.

Let's be adults. Please.

Disagreeing with your opinion doesn't make anyone a "mindless hater."

[Dboi2001]

Feige wouldn't have made something like BvS. The general public is already predisposed to like Superman and Batman, they are the most well known and popular superhero icons, it's hard to **** that up and somehow WB/Snyder did just that. MCU did more with less, and that is pretty embarrassing.

There's a lot of mindless bashing of the MCU, or the belief that everyone who dislikes Snyder's films is a mindless sheep who only likes the MCU. It reeks of "green eyed monster."

You’re right he would’ve made a half dozen half baked movies building up to it and then make a mediocre adaptation of a book that wasn’t even all that great to begin with that feels like two movies stitched into one

Like seriously Civil War is the most overrated mcu movie to do

Marvel didn’t do more with less. The avengers weren’t unknown before the mcu despite the narrative people push. The only reason they fell out of popularity to the X Men and Fantastic Four was because Fox made movies and shows off them.

And you still haven’t answered my question of how Snyder doesn’t understand Batman just because he killed off dick

[Dboi2001]

And btw you really gonna take what Kevin Tsujihara has to say at face value? I doubt the man can plan a schedule for the week let alone a multi movie long franchise.

Of course he decided to convert Snyder’s five part saga into a cinematic universe. MoS began production in 2011 when the mcu was still in its infancy. Avengers came out one year prior to MoS. Look we all know WB had no real plan and started making **** as they went along. Why would you assume anything Tsujihara has to say is anything but to stay face? He is literally worse than Amy Pascal

[SiegePerilous02]

You’re right he would’ve made a half dozen half baked movies building up to it and then make a mediocre adaptation of a book that wasn’t even all that great to begin with that feels like two movies stitched into one

Like seriously Civil War is the most overrated mcu movie to do

Marvel didn’t do more with less. The avengers weren’t unknown before the mcu despite the narrative people push. The only reason they fell out of popularity to the X Men and Fantastic Four was because Fox made movies and shows off them.

And you still haven’t answered my question of how Snyder doesn’t understand Batman just because he killed off dick

I don't know that I would have liked a Feige Batman-Superman movie, but he got results. You don't have to like the MCU, but this reeks of sour grapes. Who cares that you think Civil War is overrated? I do too, but the vast majority of people don't.

Yes they did more with less, unless you are seriously thinking that the Avengers were as well known and beloved as Superman and Batman even among people who had never once picked up a comic book before the movies. Because I'd have to call foul on that. Don't pretend that anyone in the casual audience seriously cared about Iron-Man or Captain America before the movies, especially as superheroes as a whole genre weren't as popular then.

When did you ask me about him not understanding Batman because he killed Dick? Though killing off Dick before we even get a chance to meet this version and grow attached is relying on the reputations and iconography of the characters to get people to care instead of doing the work to make us care about these versions. Nobody cared about this Batman beyond liking a flashy fight scene because we didn't know him before he was a psycho: we were told, not shown. And people can say Batman had been similarly ruthless in some comics all they want, it doesn't matter because the comics reading crowd is a niche group and this Batman didn't go over well with the casuals either. Because they had Adam West, BTAS and Nolan, not TDKR.

And btw you really gonna take what Kevin Tsujihara has to say at face value? I doubt the man can plan a schedule for the week let alone a multi movie long franchise.

Of course he decided to convert Snyder’s five part saga into a cinematic universe. MoS began production in 2011 when the mcu was still in its infancy. Avengers came out one year prior to MoS. Look we all know WB had no real plan and started making **** as they went along. Why would you assume anything Tsujihara has to say is anything but to stay face? He is literally worse than Amy Pascal

Please don't say this and then later turn around and say that WB/DC never wanted a shared universe. Because of course they were all over the place, but I don't wanna hear anymore how they never planned a shared universe. Obviously some of them did.

We can't fully trust anything any of them say.

[Triple J]

This is what Snyder had to say about Jimmy during BvS watchparty:

"People always ask me if he's dead, do we see him again, does he come back to life. I don't think so. It implies a bigger universe. It implies that these dominos are falling as we go forward. It was a five-movie arc, and as the dominoes fall, as you go, you’re ended up with the consequences, so the world is rebuilt again each time the movies continue. So, you know. If this was a TV show, I would say for sure we’d bring Jimmy back. I would have just constructed it in a different way. In this limited view of the world you take your pieces and you move them, it’s like a chess game, you move them ahead as you need them. And the ones that die off, die off for a reason. Hopefully as they die off, they give us something, they teach us something as they go. And that's kind of what their role is in the mythology that is sort of the superhero pantheon. You want to use the sort of mythological strength of each character to teach us who they are, the why of their existence in the comic books to begin with. Of course that would change in time as different directors or different comic artists continue the legacy of the work. I’m sure you could make a Jimmy Olsen tv show if you felt like it or a Jimmy Olsen movie, a one-off origin film of Jimmy Olsen. But for me, this was the purpose that he served. And that’s fine”.

Anyways, I believe Snyder has his 5 movie arc in mind, but then WB wanted to create a more expanded universe (and things changed).

The decisions Snyder made aren't suited for a multi-part franchise (and limits options for future directors). While I am a bit disappointed if Dick being the one dead.....I would rather DC embrace their multiverse (which they seem to be doing now) and let creators do what they want. It's more fun that way (and perhaps more ambitious as well, since you get to see bit more creativity when directors aren't bounded to a continuity or plot points from previous films).

[SiegePerilous02]

Except he really could have just not used Jimmy if he had no plans in using him. It didn't serve a purpose at all. Clark didn't even know him or seem to care that he died (beyond the abstract I guess).

Like what did Jimmy getting shot in the fact actually teach anybody?

[phantom1592]

Except he really could have just not used Jimmy if he had no plans in using him. It didn't serve a purpose at all. Clark didn't even know him or seem to care that he died (beyond the abstract I guess).

Like what did Jimmy getting shot in the fact actually teach anybody?

Honestly, i see it as WORSE than that. What it showed is that Superman was fine with jimmy or random CIA dude getting killed while he stood back and watched. Only once the gun was pointed at LOIS did he feel the need to step in and save lives. Until that moment he was willing to see how this plays out.

Ughhhh... hated that part so much...

[Robanker]

Honestly, i see it as WORSE than that. What it showed is that Superman was fine with jimmy or random CIA dude getting killed while he stood back and watched. Only once the gun was pointed at LOIS did he feel the need to step in and save lives. Until that moment he was willing to see how this plays out.

Ughhhh... hated that part so much...

Yeah, that's what I got from it too. Snyder likes to wax philosophical, but again, there's no depth to his ideas. He just throws them out there and builds them up at face value but rarely does any of it hold up to any criticism.

[Frontier]

Like what did Jimmy getting shot in the fact actually teach anybody?

Expect the unexpected and that this isn't the Superman you're used to?

[godisawesome]

Expect the unexpected and that this isn't the Superman you're used to?

I think that’s the crux of the matter, and one of the more nuanced differences between MOS and BvS; MOS is still, at its core, basically just Post-Crisis Superman played straight, while BvS is trying to holistically examine Superman from its own point-of-view, and has a bit more of a critical and deconstructionist angle to it. Jimmy being killed is BvS rejecting that familiar trapping entirely, rather than trying to adapt it to its new paradigm; thus, MOS’s original character Jenny comes off as an arguably more Jimmy Olsen-like character than the one with the name in BvS, possibly because David Goyer wanted some of Jimmy’s functionality in the film.

I really don’t think the philosophy of how to approach Superman and his world was wrong... I just think the road map to get there was skewed and at times counterproductive. It can feel a bit like someone who’s on a similar track to Mark Waid’s writing in Kingdom Come approaching Superman... but it lacks some of the intuitive sincerity and is perhaps a bit too early for such “navel gazing.”

And it simply wasn’t a great idea to create a consistent double standard where Superman *does* value Lois’s life more than regular people, or where he doesn’t immediately start trying to save people after the capitol blows up (removing that scene in the theatrical release is a major issue in hindsight - it reinforces a disconnect that Superman arguably suffers from in his fight with Batman) and seeming to have Superman genuinely contemplate and accept the idea that he might kill Batman... and then choreographing the fight so that Superman never uses an opening to talk until Batman’s about ready to impale his face with a lance.

It’s similar to his approach to Batman in that I don’t think either is really flawed as a concept, or an unintelligent take on the idea... they’re just underserved in execution and follow more banal extrapolations. A Superman world where Jimmy Olsen kind of *can’t* exist in the film’s vision and where Batman *can’t* have any living sidekicks are both bland explanations offered for removing these “kid appeal” characters rather than to try and refit them for the story - and thus, both are more negligible in their story impact than they could be otherwise.

I mean, at least in regards to Robin, treating the character strictly as “Robin” and showing a lack of interest in developing his story in BVS because you’re just trying to send a message against the “Robin” IP means that you’re neglecting potentially character driving stuff for Batman. I’ve always thought it was very unwise to not have Clark or Lois figure out what Dick/Jason/Tim/Damian was to Bruce, and make it clear that Bruce is a grieving father figure. And overall... well, it just seems rather boring and shortsighted in the long run to reject the possibility of a Nightwing-like character going forward.

For all that Christopher Nolan clearly disliked the Robin idea as well... he still wound up leaving greater potential in that area than Snyder did.