How would you rate DCAU Superman on a scale of 1-5?

[mabromov]

Yeah we gotta break DCAU Superman into the Daly STAS and Newbern’s JL incarnations in order to properly judge them:
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Daly Superman isn’t that bad. He’s acting within the confines of the Post Crisis Superman, so there’s some aspects I’m not fond of, but overall he’s not a bad Superman at all. He’s polite but not a pushover. He thinks of himself as Clark Kent first and foremost, but doesn’t reject his Kryptonian heritage wholesale. He’s clever, frequently wearing suits designed to protect himself against his foes who can counter his powers, showing that he’s not a naive idiot. He’s a serious journalist and is treated as such. He cares about civil liberties and takes his job seriously. He’s got a sense of humor such as when he “reveals” his identity to Lois sarcastically. His Rogues Gallery showings are solid, I love Metallo in particular losing his ability feel as a consequence of his powers. Clancy Brown Lex and Ironseid are as iconic as Hamill Joker for me.

Alright ready for my hot take? This guy sucks.
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He’s not your protective dad or your supportive big brother, he’s your grumpy ***hole uncle who you have to watch out for when he’s had a few beers. His big arc, the Cadmus arc, is one of the best animated storytelling arcs ever, but it’s totally built upon him being an easily emotionally manipulated moron who knows Lex is baiting him, and still makes a complete fool of himself. Batman walks all over Newborn Supes in JL to an even greater extent than Daly got in his crossover, and JL Superman is honestly just an unpleasant person over all. He’s just a huge dick, to the extent they even used Captain Marvel to contrast how much of a douche he had become.

JL Superman openly flirts with the idea of being a fascist, when Lois confronts him over all the **** the JL has done, his big defense is literally “I know we come on a little strong sometimes but it’s for the people’s own good.”

https://twitter.com/TheDCUniverse/st...79080655847424

Wtf Supes? This guy’s struggle is basically “I know fascism is wrong, but damn would it feel good to implement.” Glad I found that pic, because Injustice Superman pretty clearly has his roots in DCAU Superman.

Ultimately contrast his “iconic” moment with DCAU Batman’s. Batman’s big moment is comforting Ace about her impending death by showing he understands her trauma, and sincerely wants to help her. Thanks to his actions, Ace passes away peacefully and Batman refuses to break his no kill rule, showing that he’s a man of principles to the end.

DCAU Superman’s big moment? He talks **** to Darkseid, throws a punch, and still ******* loses the fight, having to get bailed out by Lex. He’s just a dumb thug who punches hard, that’s how Timm and co. characterized him, and that’s what he remains until the end. He’s not inspirational, or the heart of the team, or it’s conscience, he’s pure muscle. He sucks, plain and simple.

S:TAS Superman is bland as hell, including Daly's peformance. His supporting cast far outshines him in the show. The best episode of the series (The Late Mr. Kent) isn't a Superman episode, it's a Clark Kent episode.

In JLU Superman actually goes through a character arc during the Cadmus storyline, which is realizing his mistake of becoming more and more arrogant as the League amasses more power. Superman even admits that he's had a lot of the same temptations as the Justice Lord Superman did, which is the point.

DCAU Superman's big moment is having to say goodbye to his son, or saving the world with Vandal Savage. Both those episodes are way better than everything that was done with the character on S:TAS.

[Vordan]

S:TAS Superman is bland as hell, including Daly's peformance. His supporting cast far outshines him in the show. The best episode of the series (The Late Mr. Kent) isn't a Superman episode, it's a Clark Kent episode.

In JLU Superman actually goes through a character arc during the Cadmus storyline, which is realizing his mistake of becoming more and more arrogant as the League amasses more power. Superman even admits that he's had a lot of the same temptations as the Justice Lord Superman did, which is the point.

DCAU Superman's big moment is having to say goodbye to his son, or saving the world with Vandal Savage. Both those episodes are way better than everything that was done with the character on S:TAS.

JL Superman is way more bland. His personality is “grumpy *******” and his character arc is realizing being a dictator who lobotomizes people is in fact a bad thing. The Cadmus story arc is great but it’s built on one of the most unlikeable incarnations of Superman ever. And the big moment that’s stuck with people is the World if Cardboard speech above everything else. Way more people know that than have seen either of the two examples you listed, although I also consider them superior. Yes I know what the “point” is, that doesn’t make JL Superman any less stupid or bland. He’s got none of the charm I want Superman to have.

Yes JL Superman has his moments but I don’t consider them to outweigh the vast majority of his characterization in JL.

[mabromov]

JL Superman is way more bland. His personality is “grumpy *******” and his character arc is realizing being a dictator who lobotomizes people is in fact a bad thing. The Cadmus story arc is great but it’s built on one of the most unlikeable incarnations of Superman ever. And the big moment that’s stuck with people is the World if Cardboard speech above everything else. Way more people know that than have seen either of the two examples you listed, although I also consider them superior.

His character arc is realizing that he's become arrogant and losing his connection with the people, which he apologizes for at the end of the Cadmus arc. That's why he proposes they build the metro tower on earth to be closer to the people.



Superman gets way more meater episodes in JLU that actually explore his character than S:TAS ever did. I've always said in regards to S:TAS, I like everything in the show except for Superman himself, who invokes no strong feelings one way or the other.

[mabromov]

My issue with DCAU Superman can be summarized as follows: if Superman were a boxer, his mythic equivalent should be someone like Muhammad Ali, the GOAT, and one of the most socially-conscious and charismatic public figures of his time. Instead, the DCAU guys went with Rocky, a good-hearted but dimwitted grinder.

Using the OP's categories...

I liked Tim Daly as an actor, but his Superman felt like he needed a double Kryptonian espresso.

Someone agrees with me! I liked Daly as Clark Kent, but man his Superman really lacked energy.

Whereas with Newbern you felt the passion when he said the lines.

[K. Jones]

4/5 as an overall. Certainly good enough to make me a life-long fan of Superman in real-time. It'd be higher in my esteem if it had treated its villains better, frankly. They did solid work but there are just some A-List cool Superman foes that never even made it to the show, let alone some of the ones that made it to the show but weren't quite up to snuff. I didn't know the half of it at the time, because I was like 13-14 and not that versed on comics, but even then I kind of recognized not all of Superman's villains were getting the same kind of respect as basically Batman's whole Rogue's Gallery (minus Riddler).

Luthor was phenomenal. Bruno Mannheim was memorable. Rudy Jones was quite a nice take. Livewire is legit cool. The build-up to Darkseid is incredible as are the entire royal court of Apokolips. Love Mercy Graves.

I don't like Clone Bizarros, I'm a big Htrae guy, so that story was bust for me even then. I knew Jax-Ur and Nala weren't Zod and Ursa, so that was a bummer because it gives us a faux less cool wannabe Zod, AND kind of ruins Jax-Ur's rep as a scientist with zero ethics as an "Anti-Jor-El".

Sinestro was cool but you know, he's not a Superman villain. I did like Lobo's inclusion. They went hardcore alien AI with Brainiac but the Preserver sort of picks up the Old School Bottle City Brainiac thing and I like that as a Lobo team-up. Weather Wizard was both done bad AND not a Superman villain. That kind of thing kept cropping up.

There's other weird things. They went full Gotham with Toyman, which is an odd choice for Metropolis. He sort of had the same modus operandi as Mad Hatter. It's well done though. I mean what do you do with O.G. style Winslow Schott? Prankster's easy enough - you can either play him as kind of a goon, or you can go full speed white collar criminal con man with him, make him swindle Luthor, play the Daily Planet for chumps, make him a villain that isn't a Job for Superman ... it's a job for Clark Kent, which then plays up the fact that Clark's supposed to be a golly shucks sucker from Smallville, not that crafty. Wait I'm spiraling into concept pitches. Back up.

So yeah, in general, "overall", as a feeling I love the show but wish it had been more hands on with quite a few Superman villains. In a weird turn for me I think that they use Luthor just fine, just the right amount - which is a lot.

Batman: TAS has just iconic villainy. When I think Superman, I sort of go ... Clancy Brown Luthor oooooh, Michael Ironside Darkseid ahhhhh then kind of forget everyone else.

[manwhohaseverything]

His character arc is realizing that he's become arrogant and losing his connection with the people, which he apologizes for at the end of the Cadmus arc. That's why he proposes they build the metro tower on earth to be closer to the people.



Superman gets way more meater episodes in JLU that actually explore his character than S:TAS ever did. I've always said in regards to S:TAS, I like everything in the show except for Superman himself, who invokes no strong feelings one way or the other.

Going through an arc and an arc being appealing is two different things.i found him becoming pariah in tas more impactful.

[DochaDocha]

Batman: TAS has just iconic villainy. When I think Superman, I sort of go ... Clancy Brown Luthor oooooh, Michael Ironside Darkseid ahhhhh then kind of forget everyone else.

Please reconsider Corey Burton as Brainiac.

Post-STAS Superman was always restricted by some tradeoff. Everything time they did something cool with the character, there was always something else to limit the effect. Like if Superman won a big fight, it was not essential to the heroes' fight to win the episode, e.g. KOing Darkseid in "Twilight" was mostly a side plot, or overwhelming AMAZO (who had all of Superman's powers, plus GL, Flash, Wonder Woman) was secondary to when Batman showed up and brought the Kryptonite. Building along this theme, and excluding the dreaded season 1 of JL, it also worked on the opposite end of the spectrum. If Superman wasn't highly-featured in an episode, he'd get some literal or metaphorical shout out, like in a few episodes I mentioned before. In regards to the Cadmus arc, I didn't like his overall characterization, but it reinforced the idea that the JL follows his lead.

In short, much of the show was a yeah-but with Superman. Every cool thing was paired with a not-so-good thing, but during times of mediocrity he'd get some implicit or explicit recognition. I guess you could say the show could prop him up or bring him down, but then regress him toward the mean.

I still generally dislike STAS but there are some fantastic episodes. I'm feeling lazy to describe it in more details, so I'll just keep it at that.

As for Daly vs. Newbern, I'd agree Newbern really wasn't allowed to go through a large gamut of emotions, but he does play a good irked Superman. I think there should be times when Superman is just tired of everyone's BS (without going full fascist dictator...), and Newbern does a good job of emoting it. I still think Daly's Superman is still to lethargic, though when he had the chance to be funny he did a good job.

[mabromov]

Batman: TAS has just iconic villainy. When I think Superman, I sort of go ... Clancy Brown Luthor oooooh, Michael Ironside Darkseid ahhhhh then kind of forget everyone else.

Hey now, S:TAS had Bud Cort as Toyman, Malcolm McDowell as Metallo, Ed Asner as Granny Goodness.

Some really great performances and imo the definitive version of those characters.

[Ascended]

3/5.

It was okay. Much of the supporting cast and rogues were more interesting than Clark himself, and Timm really showed that he doesn't get the character. But it wasn't bad.

[Adekis]

I'll agree that Timm doesn't quite get the character.

Gods and Monsters really bothered me, because frankly, Superman Guerra is fantastic. Sure, he entertains notions of taking over the world, and he kills people. But you know what, besides that, he's nearly perfect. He aggressively cares for the marginalized, his super-brain has processing power that can't be accounted for with normal human smarts, he's also got those kind of smarts, and maybe most importantly, he wants to change the world for the better and he acts on it. In other words, he's Superman.

I don't want to **** on the Daly Superman too much. I legitimately love him, I think he's just enough of a badass to be interesting and just enough of a classic take that he seems largely timeless despite his post-Crisis roots. I don't think he's bland overall. He doesn't challenge the status quo, but that's... most versions of Superman. I'm not gonna be upset about that!

But all that said, I think it says a lot that Bruce Timm never did a better job with Superman, than when he had absolute carte blanche to screw him up. Compared to both JLU's "grumpy uncle Superman" (I don't know if I like it, but it's catchy, haha) and the classic-but-with-slightly-more-attitude Superman of STAS, Guerra is far and away the better take.

[Lokimaru]

JL Superman is way more bland. His personality is “grumpy asshole” and his character arc is realizing being a dictator who lobotomizes people is in fact a bad thing. The Cadmus story arc is great but it’s built on one of the most unlikeable incarnations of Superman ever. And the big moment that’s stuck with people is the World if Cardboard speech above everything else. Way more people know that than have seen either of the two examples you listed, although I also consider them superior. Yes I know what the “point” is, that doesn’t make JL Superman any less stupid or bland. He’s got none of the charm I want Superman to have.

Yes JL Superman has his moments but I don’t consider them to outweigh the vast majority of his characterization in JL.

Sounds like you hate that JL Superman is very Human.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

After Batman: The Animated Series, Superman: The Animated Series was a comedown for me. Like most here, I rated DCAU Superman 3 out of 5.

Superman is my favorite character in all of comics, so while BTAS made me like Batman more, STAS made me like Superman less.

Superman seems to be hard character for writers to get, and I think it's because he's so simple in terms of his motivations. He's not particularly tortured even though he's a space orphan whose entire planet blew up. So, there really is no built-in pathos to the character that stories can generate out of. Very much the opposite of Batman or Spider-Man.

Superman has had only 3 solo television cartoon series in his long career. The aforementioned Batman and Spider-Man have had the most. Of the 3 Superman series, I prefer the 1980s Ruby-Spears show. It was just straight-ahead action/adventure, Saturday morning style, and was unapologetic about it. It didn't try to make Superman deep or meaningful, and I think that's where a lot of adaptations and comic book writers go wrong with the character. They lean too much into trying to make Superman an important symbol that his stories often feel like a lecture. Other times, the writer spends time trying to convince the reader that Superman is not dull, which only makes the stories dull to me. Just tell rollicking action/adventure stories.

Someone needs to take a chance and do another animated series on Superman that shows him and his cast to their fullest potentials. Don't lecture, and don't self-consciously try to make Superman hip or cool because those behind-the-scenes mechanics are always glaring. Just use the animated series format to fully develop Superman's expansive world -- the Daily Planet staff; his relationships with Lois, Jimmy, Pete Ross, Lana; Lori the Mermaid; Krypton; Kandor; the Legion; Luthor and his Rogue's Gallery -- all of it.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

And, by the way, that "World's Finest" 3-parter where Superman and Batman first met in the Timmverse? It contains a scene where Superman and Batman duck for cover when crooks start firing machine guns.

Superman does not duck for cover against bullets. Unforgivable.

[manwhohaseverything]

has had only 3 solo television cartoon series in his long career. The aforementioned Batman and Spider-Man have had the most. Of the 3 Superman series, I prefer the 1980s Ruby-Spears show. It was just straight-ahead action/adventure, Saturday morning style, and was unapologetic about it. It didn't try to make Superman deep or meaningful, and I think that's where a lot of adaptations and comic book writers go wrong with the character. They lean too much into trying to make Superman an important symbol that his stories often feel like a lecture. Other times, the writer spends time trying to convince the reader that Superman is not dull, which only makes the stories dull to me. Just tell rollicking action/adventure stories.

I agree with this completely. Give something entertaining first, atleast.

[Vordan]

Sounds like you hate that JL Superman is very Human.

I hate that he’s very boring and one-note sure. There’s more to being human than scowling all the time bud. They did it with Batman but dropped the ball with Superman.

Edit: For the record I gave DCAU Supes a 3/5. He’s ok overall but not “muh Superman”.