Mohammad alai jr (grappler baki) VS Green Goblin

[Marvel-Studios Rep]

No gear. They're wearing boxing gloves.

Who wins?

[hareluyafan1]

Alai Jr.

Easily.

[Marvel-Studios Rep]

Alai Jr.

Easily.

I can understand him winning, but why easily? Is Goblin too slow? What if Goblin is swapped for Kraven?

[Nik Hasta]

Ali Jr is kind of difficult to gauge.

He's got one singular clean victory against an effectively no name guy in the Kaioh Tournament. He then beat Doppo and Shibakawa but they came back in the same arc and beat him going "Ho ho young man, we were both just going easy on you,"

He then allegedly got a powerup only to get utterly flattened by Baki.

So where that leaves him in terms of stats is hard to judge. Green Goblin is metahuman enough that he can throw down with Spider-Man so I'd personally back him.

Ali is a better boxer but I don't know if that will help him here.

[Marvel-Studios Rep]

Ali Jr is kind of difficult to gauge.

He's got one singular clean victory against an effectively no name guy in the Kaioh Tournament. He then beat Doppo and Shibakawa but they came back in the same arc and beat him going "Ho ho young man, we were both just going easy on you,"

He then allegedly got a powerup only to get utterly flattened by Baki.

So where that leaves him in terms of stats is hard to judge. Green Goblin is metahuman enough that he can throw down with Spider-Man so I'd personally back him.

Ali is a better boxer but I don't know if that will help him here.

In the anime we get to see him take a prolonged beating from Jack Hanma (including pretty decent sized craters in concrete).

We also know for a fact that he can react faster than any real world human.

[Beadle]

Real world humans move like molasses compared to ‘Dude who is a decent fight for Spider-Man’, so that’s not really a gauge.

[Nik Hasta]

In the anime we get to see him take a prolonged beating from Jack Hanma (including pretty decent sized craters in concrete).

We also know for a fact that he can react faster than any real world human.

Ah, I had forgotten that fight. Just checked it out again and it's pretty one sided. Jack destroys him in short order.

And Gobby is, if anything, likely a bit stronger than Jack.

This doesn't look good for Ali.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Which version of Green Goblin are we talking about?

[hareluyafan1]

I can understand him winning, but why easily? Is Goblin too slow? What if Goblin is swapped for Kraven?

Goblin has basically zero fighting skills. Against Spider-Man he relies mostly on his gadgets, using the glider to keep his distance while he throws bombs. Plus there's the fact that Peter usually holds back because he doesn't want to hurt his best friend's dad.

Here Goblin has no gadgets and is going up against a guy who actually knows how to fight (very well) and who isn't holding back at all. Not looking good for Goblin.

Kraven would have a much better chance since he actually has fighting skills. I think he'd have a good shot.

He's got one singular clean victory against an effectively no name guy in the Kaioh Tournament. He then beat Doppo and Shibakawa but they came back in the same arc and beat him going "Ho ho young man, we were both just going easy on you,"

I know we go mainly by feats here but just the fact that guy was a competitor in the Kaioh Tournament puts him well above most street-level comic characters. Remember this was a super-special tournament held once a century. You had to be the best of the best just to get in.

He then allegedly got a powerup only to get utterly flattened by Baki.

True but hey, it's Baki. Getting flattened by him is like an ant getting flattened by an elephant. It's really no shame for the ant.

[Nik Hasta]

Goblin has basically zero fighting skills. Against Spider-Man he relies mostly on his gadgets, using the glider to keep his distance while he throws bombs. Plus there's the fact that Peter usually holds back because he doesn't want to hurt his best friend's dad.

Here Goblin has no gadgets and is going up against a guy who actually knows how to fight (very well) and who isn't holding back at all. Not looking good for Goblin.

Kraven would have a much better chance since he actually has fighting skills. I think he'd have a good shot.

Goblin has feats of blitzing regular humans, shattering large metal shackles between his fingers, killing skilled swordsmen in a fight where he does not have a weapon, and takes being piledrivered out of a helicopter onto concrete such that it made a crater where he landed and he didn't even seem bothered by it.

He's also beaten the heck out Ben Riley Spider-Man on one occasion and he has a healing factor.

He's no joke and he does know how to fight. Just because he uses a lot of tech doesn't mean he's not a physically capable guy.

I know we go mainly by feats here but just the fact that guy was a competitor in the Kaioh Tournament puts him well above most street-level comic characters. Remember this was a super-special tournament held once a century. You had to be the best of the best just to get in.

I don't get how you go from "this dude is a martial artist with zero feats," to "this dude is obviously better than most comic street levellers,"

The dude Ali Jr beat up in the tournament did literally nothing at all beyond go out and get chewed up by Ali. That's not really a feat. You can see "Ali Jr beat up an apparently skilled martial artist," but there's nothing actually in that fight to suggest that the dude was significantly better than say Bronze Tiger.

[Marvel-Studios Rep]

Goblin has feats of blitzing regular humans, shattering large metal shackles between his fingers, killing skilled swordsmen in a fight where he does not have a weapon, and takes being piledrivered out of a helicopter onto concrete such that it made a crater where he landed and he didn't even seem bothered by it.

He's also beaten the heck out Ben Riley Spider-Man on one occasion and he has a healing factor.

He's no joke and he does know how to fight. Just because he uses a lot of tech doesn't mean he's not a physically capable guy.



I don't get how you go from "this dude is a martial artist with zero feats," to "this dude is obviously better than most comic street levellers,"

The dude Ali Jr beat up in the tournament did literally nothing at all beyond go out and get chewed up by Ali. That's not really a feat. You can see "Ali Jr beat up an apparently skilled martial artist," but there's nothing actually in that fight to suggest that the dude was significantly better than say Bronze Tiger.

There was a thread on here a long time ago putting Gobby against Captain America. It was mostly agreed that Gobby had no speed feats anywhere near Spidey, and was in fact maybe slower than Cap. Jow badly did Goblin Blitz these humans?

For strength, yeah, if Gobby gets hands on Alai he won't be able to break free.

[Nik Hasta]

There was a thread on here a long time ago putting Gobby against Captain America. It was mostly agreed that Gobby had no speed feats anywhere near Spidey, and was in fact maybe slower than Cap. Jow badly did Goblin Blitz these humans?

For strength, yeah, if Gobby gets hands on Alai he won't be able to break free.

For the record, I'd certainly think that Goblin is slower than Spider-Man and is slower than Captain America as well to my mind. Cap definitely has more and better speed feats.

Feat I found, Goblin is in prison with his hands on the head lying in the centre of a reasonably large prison cell (it's built to hold two people IIRC) A guard has a gun trained on him. Norman decides that he's leaving so he stands up, the guard orders him to get back down. The next panel is Norman, having zipped up to him, holding him aloft by the throat having disarmed him.

It's nothing say - Batman, Cap or indeed Ali Jr couldn't replicate but it indicates that he's at least somewhat faster than conventional humans. For me it's less his speed rather his durability, strength and healing factor that win this here.

[JohnDiggle]

Ali Jr. Boy what disappointment he was. Keisuke Itagaki just didn't know what to do with him.

[The Arbiter]

From the perspective of someone who has read 68% of Baki but in the most random order possible, I am having trouble seeing Ali managing to do much beyond survive for an impressive chunk of time against Goblin.

Ali is far from top tier Baki-verse. He would have trouble hurting Goblin but the reverse isn't true. He can dodge and weave and absorb some blows but it's Goblin's fight to lose imo.

[The Chou Lives]

Goblin wins. Dude is a “boss” fight for Peter and he has to go all out to win. His physical stats got upgraded too.

Ali, just is not consistent. He lost way more than win.