DC Cuts Ties with Diamond

[iron chimp]

There was a comicsbeat article by brian hibbs saying that he has customers at his shop who could save 100 dollars a month shopping at dcbs. In effect they are basically paying 100 dollars a month for a chat with store owner and to hang out and maybe meet friends.

Obviously 100 dollars is loose change to some people but for rest of us its a considerable amount of money, let alone for a chat.

Every pro change shop article ive seen has sidestepped this and focused on benefits such as better packaging etc (all of which are very valid) but i cant see how they arent taking their customers for granted.

10% of custom has already moved to what is now the distro and i think there is far more growth potential in mail order discount comics than there is retail comics given what we saw in music and books.

[Ascended]

if that BC article is any indicator, no, Pam Littleford does not, in fact, care about retailers in that she wants to end the monthly book model. Everything I've read suggests that either WB/AT&T is being a lot more hands on here than in the past.

Not that I take BC with anything more than a grain of salt, but they're probably right on this.

I mean, think about it. Look at it from her perspective. You got DC, who own some of the biggest names in one of the biggest genres ruling pop culture right now. And that company puts the vast majority of their effort into a industry that demands grueling deadlines, high production costs, exists in a shrinking market, and makes very little profit once all the bills are paid (comparatively). Well okay, on its own that's not a big deal right? DC's real value is in the IP's and their larger media adaptations, so as long as comics are at least breaking even, it's worthwhile. The money they make is pocket change, but the movies and games and merchandise is a different matter.

But then you look at these other print formats, where the deadlines are easier, the distribution is wider, the markets are growing, and you can reach a wider selection of demographics, helping build fans across a wide intersection of audiences who will then go out and spend even more money on those high-value adaptations. And those other formats are actually churning out more cash for the amount of effort and time put into them, and can continue to make cash long after the release date in ways floppies can't.

So if you were her, looking at this data.....what would you want to prioritize? And that's before you even get into the various problems within the comic industry, like the monopoly that Diamond had.

If you're her, you don't care about the small business retailers and comic shops; as far as you're concerned those are probably part of the problem. They keep the distribution small and limited to a handful of specialty stores, and the bulk of responsibility for advertising *your* product falls on them, because if people don't know about that small shop, your product won't be bought.

I still don't think DC is trying to move out of the direct market completely, and they shouldn't. They still make money from the system and their diehard loyal customers are there. But if I were Littleford, I'd be thinking real hard about how to get those IP's out to more people in viable markets, shifting effort and focus away from floppies to make that happen, and I wouldn't care too awful much about the direct market retailers who have helped make comics a dead-end industry in an age where the adaptations are setting box office and video game records every year.

The only people I'd be really interested in are the diehard fans who pay a stupid amount of money for twenty pages of content; you get them to move with you into OGN's or whatever, and you've gained a small but loyal customer base that'll waste tons of time online, giving you free advertising. The direct market fanbase is small, compared to what these corporate people are talking about, but word of mouth online marketing is 10000% the best way to advertise, and while our community is small, we're still a lot bigger than a high-price marketing group.

[iron chimp]

Not that I take BC with anything more than a grain of salt, but they're probably right on this.

I mean, think about it. Look at it from her perspective. You got DC, who own some of the biggest names in one of the biggest genres ruling pop culture right now. And that company puts the vast majority of their effort into a industry that demands grueling deadlines, high production costs, exists in a shrinking market, and makes very little profit once all the bills are paid (comparatively). Well okay, on its own that's not a big deal right? DC's real value is in the IP's and their larger media adaptations, so as long as comics are at least breaking even, it's worthwhile. The money they make is pocket change, but the movies and games and merchandise is a different matter.

But then you look at these other print formats, where the deadlines are easier, the distribution is wider, the markets are growing, and you can reach a wider selection of demographics, helping build fans across a wide intersection of audiences who will then go out and spend even more money on those high-value adaptations. And those other formats are actually churning out more cash for the amount of effort and time put into them, and can continue to make cash long after the release date in ways floppies can't.

So if you were her, looking at this data.....what would you want to prioritize? And that's before you even get into the various problems within the comic industry, like the monopoly that Diamond had.

If you're her, you don't care about the small business retailers and comic shops; as far as you're concerned those are probably part of the problem. They keep the distribution small and limited to a handful of specialty stores, and the bulk of responsibility for advertising *your* product falls on them, because if people don't know about that small shop, your product won't be bought.

I still don't think DC is trying to move out of the direct market completely, and they shouldn't. They still make money from the system and their diehard loyal customers are there. But if I were Littleford, I'd be thinking real hard about how to get those IP's out to more people in viable markets, shifting effort and focus away from floppies to make that happen, and I wouldn't care too awful much about the direct market retailers who have helped make comics a dead-end industry in an age where the adaptations are setting box office and video game records every year.

The only people I'd be really interested in are the diehard fans who pay a stupid amount of money for twenty pages of content; you get them to move with you into OGN's or whatever, and you've gained a small but loyal customer base that'll waste tons of time online, giving you free advertising. The direct market fanbase is small, compared to what these corporate people are talking about, but word of mouth online marketing is 10000% the best way to advertise, and while our community is small, we're still a lot bigger than a high-price marketing group.

If the direct market is the size it is, its entirely the companies fault. The entered into a growing vibrant direct market and within 10 years they broke it by bum rushing the shelves with shovelware, exploitative tactics against readers, with the collusion of some of the comics press using methods illegal in other arts industries and fighting with each other. Dc walk out with credit in that period because they actually maintained good quality, but some of the other companies and creatives were unbelievably cynical and just viewed readers as chumps.

All the other companies created a functioning infrastructure off their own back so they could have artistic freedom outside the comics code and then had to watch as it was gatecrashed and destroyed.

Dc were the only company who managed to.maintain a wide cross section of readers with vertigo and their superhero books in the aftermath and then just pissed it all away over the next 20 years. Every rumour i hear (and obvs it could be crap) about things they want to do or directions they want to take is things they had done since the 80s before they destroyed it themselves.

[Ascended]

If the direct market is the size it is, its entirely the companies fault.

It is, at least in large part (everyone had their role to play). But beyond identifying the mistake/s your company and your peers made so you don't make the same ones again, there's not much point in assigning blame this late in the game. Now it's about moving forward, how to do it, and what direction you're gonna move in, not about pointing fingers.

Dc were the only company who managed to.maintain a wide cross section of readers with vertigo and their superhero books in the aftermath and then just pissed it all away over the next 20 years. Every rumour i hear (and obvs it could be crap) about things they want to do or directions they want to take is things they had done since the 80s before they destroyed it themselves.

I know, and that's the real irony. I mean, us long term readers have seen DC (and Marvel too) repeat the same mistakes, the same flawed and failed programs and initiatives, over and over again for years, cutting themselves off at the knees every time, while readership continued to shrink. But the question isn't so much "what went wrong" as it is "what do we do now?" We know what went wrong. The companies certainly have spent plenty of time with market annalists, they know what went wrong too. So what are they gonna do about it? That's the only question that really matters.

[Gotham citizen]

I think the U.S. comics industry is in the same fatal situation the U.S. automobiles industry was during the seventies/eighties: all the people who worked in that industry were in love for the American cars of the fifties/sixties, so they designed their cars following that philosophy, without understand that the needs and the tasted of the customers were radically changed, with the result that the customers started to buy the European and Japanese cars and the American automotive industry collapsed. In the same way the comics authors of today decided to work in the comic industry because they were charmed by the comics of the eighties/nineties, so they try to put in their comics what they liked in the comics they read and they try to "correct" what they didn't like, but they fail to see that their customers are changed (or they stopped to be readers) and so also their need and their tasted are changed.
If they want save their industry, they need to change, but to change is the most difficult thing a man can do, because to do that before he must admit he is thinking wrong and very few persons are able to do that.

[iron chimp]

I think the U.S. comics industry is in the same fatal situation the U.S. automobiles industry was during the seventies/eighties: all the people who worked in that industry were in love for the American cars of the fifties/sixties, so they designed their cars following that philosophy, without understand that the needs and the tasted of the customers were radically changed, with the result that the customers started to buy the European and Japanese cars and the American automotive industry collapsed. In the same way the comics authors of today decided to work in the comic industry because they were charmed by the comics of the eighties/nineties, so they try to put in their comics what they liked in the comics they read and they try to "correct" what they didn't like, but they fail to see that their customers are changed (or they stopped to be readers) and so also their need and their tasted are changed.
If they want save their industry, they need to change, but to change is the most difficult thing a man can do, because to do that before he must admit he is thinking wrong and very few persons are able to do that.

Comics in the direct market in the 80s were very different to they are today.

It would be funny to see the reaction but i definitely couldnt imagine Crack Whore being allowed on the stands today or a lot of the very drug and sex themed work back then. People would have a heart attack today.

You also wont see the modern equivalents of neat stuff or beanworld or frank or bacchus or cages or eightball or a lot of other things on the stands today that could get space and sell in the 80s and early 90s and be praised.

The death of the black and white comic - a well respected art form in the 80s but barely seen at all on the racks.

Glacial pace of stories today, the dying art of the done in one issue, whole genres missing from the racks, individual artists owning their own publishing companies, the idea of jumping from indie to dc or marvel was considered a sell out or a failure etc.

In the early 90s disneys aborted adult comics imprint commissioned peter milligan to write a book on the gay love triangle between reader, creator, and super hero. Thats how different it was. And Dc picked it up and published it instead! Then went one further and published garth ennis's absolute destruction of themselves and marvel.

You wouldnt even bother pitching anything like that today to them.

[Gaastra]

And it starts. At&t may sell wb games! (what about tt games? Is this the end of the lego dc games?)

Also that may have just killed injustice 3.


https://bleedingcool.com/games/for-s...sell-wb-games/

What else is at&t going to sell?

[Pinsir]

And it starts. At&t may sell wb games! (what about tt games? Is this the end of the lego dc games?)

Also that may have just killed injustice 3.


https://bleedingcool.com/games/for-s...sell-wb-games/

What else is at&t going to sell?

My guess is that they think they can just license out their IPs to different studios like Disney does, but I still think its obviously a dumb decision.

[superduperman]

And it starts. At&t may sell wb games! (what about tt games? Is this the end of the lego dc games?)

Also that may have just killed injustice 3.


https://bleedingcool.com/games/for-s...sell-wb-games/

What else is at&t going to sell?

I hope this isn't a sign of the kind of decisions they're gonna make in the future. They could make more money from video games than most of their other entertainment divisions.

[Gotham citizen]

Message deleted due to incoming editing.

[Confuzzled]

And it starts. At&t may sell wb games! (what about tt games? Is this the end of the lego dc games?)

Also that may have just killed injustice 3.


https://bleedingcool.com/games/for-s...sell-wb-games/

What else is at&t going to sell?

Inevitable after a buyout of this scale. Actually surprised it took them this long.

[Digifiend]

The death of the black and white comic - a well respected art form in the 80s but barely seen at all on the racks.

Huh? Walking Dead was black and white and only recently finished.

[iron chimp]

Huh? Walking Dead was black and white and only recently finished.

Walking dead is more of a modern hybrid- its semi black and white semi 'coloured' using grey scales. It totally showed you can still do it and dominate though - i was hoping it would open the door for more pen/brush and ink books but that style looks consigned to a niche these days compared to the days when shelves had a large selection to choose from.

[Holt]

Inevitable after a buyout of this scale. Actually surprised it took them this long.

The buyout was really unfortunately timed, in hindsight. They bought a movie studio just in time for Hollywood to shut down for the foreseeable future and delay all their big upcoming moneymakers like Wonder Woman 1984 and Tenet.

[Vakanai]

The buyout was really unfortunately timed, in hindsight. They bought a movie studio just in time for Hollywood to shut down for the foreseeable future and delay all their big upcoming moneymakers like Wonder Woman 1984 and Tenet.

Unfortunate in hindsight, but they'd have to be psychic to have seen it coming.