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  1. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Just realised another consequence of this. DC won't be part of Free Comic Book Day now (it's run by Diamond), so the Generation Zero one-shot has effectively been cancelled.
    Well, I think DC has quietly canceled the Generation 5 thing anyway, but if DC is smart, and I think they are, they will still be able to participate in Free Comic Book Day through their new distributors. They may not be able to use the "Free Comic Book Day" logo on top of the cover, but they can come up with something else, and since Midtown and DCBS are also retailers, they will ensure that their customers know about whatever free thing DC is offering.

    And, since it's free, they could just include a copy of whatever it is in everyone's bag whether they come into a Midtown location or order from Midtown/DCBS online. They can also make sure the stores that have accounts with them know about DC's free offering.

    While I do think that overall DC is doing the right thing, the one part that I wish were different would be the time frame that this is all taking place in.

    DC just announced on Friday June 5 that orders after June 1 would not be fulfilled through Diamond, and I think that's a lot of the cause of anger and frustration from retailers because it really did come out of the blue, and there's not a lot of time to adjust. DC did postpone the next final order cut off, but only for a week (from June 8 to June 15).

    To me, that a pretty big bombshell to drop on the retailers on a Friday afternoon and then go into radio silence mode over the weekend. Retailers have to contact Midtown or DCBS, set up an account, get approved for credit terms, familiarize themselves with their new distributor's ordering forms/policies, and order their next batch of DC Comics -- NOW!!!

    A longer phase-in period would have been better for them, I think. Announce it now and begin shipping from the new distributors in August or whatever. Give retailers some time to process all of this and ask all their questions to DC, Midtown, and DCBS. DC really pulled the rug out from under their retailers, and I would have to guess that there's more to all of this than we know right now.

    I'd like Rich Johnston to investigate this and see if he can come up with what really went on behind the scenes in regard to DC's out of the blue seismic shift in the way they distribute their comics.
    Last edited by Comic-Reader Lad; 06-07-2020 at 10:27 AM.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    That is the rumor from BC. That WB is unhappy with the amount of money the monthlies actually bring in vs. what they cost to print, ship, ect. and thinks that just bypassing the whole monthly system and going straight for things like book stores and book fairs would make more sense.
    But why is any of this happening at all? The gossip is that Pamela Lifford, President of Warner Bros. Consumer Products has no love for DC Comics monthly comic books. The belief from some is that they cost too much to make, they take up too much editorial and production time, everything is rushed to deadline which means the urgent often trumps the important decisions being made and – they bring in too little money, compared everything else they do. Don't get them wrong, they still make money, just not as much as all that prime Burbank real estate could make.

    Instead, the gossip is that DC will focus on,, and rapidly expand, their original graphic novels line and the bookstore market, book fairs, libraries, Walmart


    – and they may keep the Walmart


    100-page giant comics. They've already cancelled them for the direct market through Diamond. And for easy, cheap serialisation, they have digital already.

    Its been notable that the bookstore market for comics has been rapidly growing for a different, younger, more female market. Scholastic


    book fairs and the like have seen Dav Pilkey and Raina Telegemeier sell millions and more and more graphic novels being signed up for the kids, middle grand and YA market. DC has had commercial and critical success in this market, the Titans OGNs rising up the bookstore sales charts and Harley Quinn grabbing all the Eisner nominations. And, hey, comic book stores can sell those DC books instead.

    Graphic novels have a more forgiving timeframe than monthly serialised comic books. They are prepared and produced longer in advance, there's less of a rush to production, it's just a more pleasant environment all round. No events, no variants, just… comics. Now, this is just gossip right now, but it's from high levels in the industry. I'll see what shakes out over the weekend.
    Is Lifford right?

  3. #183

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    Also, here's some real numbers in how much DC's market share is and how it translates into dollars. This is from the Comichron article referenced earlier.

    https://blog.comichron.com/2020/06/d...ship-with.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Comichron, June 5, 2020
    The market share involved: DC in 2019 represented 30.74% of Diamond's comics and graphic novel units and 29.23% of its dollars. On the dollar side, that amounts to almost exactly $155 million at full retail. DC's share of that would have been in the $60 million neighborhood, with Diamond's fee — which Geppi has said hasn't changed in years — being considerably lower

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comic-Reader Lad View Post
    Well, I think DC has quietly canceled the Generation 5 thing anyway, but if DC is smart, and I think they are, they will still be able to participate in Free Comic Book Day through their new distributors. They may not be able to use the "Free Comic Book Day" logo on top of the cover, but they can come up with something else, and since Midtown and DCBS are also retailers, they will ensure that their customers know about whatever free thing DC is offering.

    And, since it's free, they could just include a copy of whatever it is in everyone's bag whether they come into a Midtown location or order from Midtown/DCBS online. They can also make sure the stores that have accounts with them know about DC's free offering.

    While I do think that overall DC is doing the right thing, the one part that I wish were different would be the time frame that this is all taking place in.

    DC just announced on Friday June 5 that orders after June 1 would not be fulfilled through Diamond, and I think that's a lot of the cause of anger and frustration from retailers because it really did come out of the blue, and there's not a lot of time to adjust. DC did postpone the next final order cut off, but only for a week (from June 8 to June 15).

    To me, that a pretty big bombshell to drop on the retailers on a Friday afternoon and then go into radio silence mode over the weekend. Retailers have to contact Midtown or DCBS, set up an account, get approved for credit terms, familiarize themselves with their new distributor's ordering forms/policies, and order their next batch of DC Comics -- NOW!!!

    A longer phase-in period would have been better for them, I think. Announce it now and begin shipping from the new distributors in August or whatever. Give retailers some time to process all of this and ask all their questions to DC, Midtown, and DCBS. DC really pulled the rug out from under their retailers, and I would have to guess that there's more to all of this than we know right now.

    I'd like Rich Johnston to investigate this and see if he can come up with what really went on behind the scenes in regard to DC's out of the blue seismic shift in the way they distribute their comics.
    The retailers still have to pay for the books (25c i think?) and the expense of hosting the day (artists in store, gaming events, writers, decorating the store and advertising the event etc)

    I cant see many people going to be keen to take up dcs offer especially when most of their dc customers will have been in on the tuesday while everyone else comes in on Wednesday

  5. #185
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    Here’s what Warren Ellis has to say about all this (from his newsletter):


    And here’s what Ex-DC President Diane Nelson has to say about all this:


    It seems like Diamond has both refused to modernize and also has had problems paying the companies. Diamond seems to have thought they could do what they wanted because they were a monopoly, and it pushed DC to cut ties with them.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Here’s what Warren Ellis has to say about all this (from his newsletter):


    And here’s what Ex-DC President Diane Nelson has to say about all this:


    It seems like Diamond has both refused to modernize and also has had problems paying the companies. Diamond seems to have thought they could do what they wanted because they were a monopoly, and it pushed DC to cut ties with them.
    So everything people complained about dimond for the past 20 years is true? Shocker

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Here’s what Warren Ellis has to say about all this (from his newsletter):


    And here’s what Ex-DC President Diane Nelson has to say about all this:


    It seems like Diamond has both refused to modernize and also has had problems paying the companies. Diamond seems to have thought they could do what they wanted because they were a monopoly, and it pushed DC to cut ties with them.

    If a 100 billion dollar company cant wait a few months for whats probably 6 weeks of outstanding payments from one tiny division then they are bankrupt themselves.

    Mile high already said they had outstanding invoices from diamond totally a million dollars at one point. So it works both ways.

  8. #188
    Mighty Member Lonewolf36's Avatar
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    This was not discussed had they went to DC and asked for a 6 week extension then i could understand it. But just up and do it without discussing it cause they thought they could then no DC done what they should and i complement them for it. What if an employer decide to pay and employee 25 dollars on the 100 and expect them to do that without even letting them know for 6 week i don't think they would have that employee for long.

  9. #189
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    If a 100 billion dollar company cant wait a few months for whats probably 6 weeks of outstanding payments from one tiny division then they are bankrupt themselves.

    Mile high already said they had outstanding invoices from diamond totally a million dollars at one point. So it works both ways.
    Are you really out here defending Diamond? Dude if Diamond is having these type of problems, what the hell do you think is the long time viability of the current model? This right here is the problem, you and other retailers will whine about Diamond, but you don’t actually want anything to change.

    The current direct market is a house of cards built on variant covers, non-stop event comics, and reboots/relaunches. It’s not sustainable. It never was. DC is at least attempting to secure a future for the industry. Do you think AT&T or Disney give a damn about the print industry? You guys have also been crying wolf over digital, over trades, over EVERYTHING. I’m telling it to you straight: most of you were going to die anyway. It would’ve been a slow death, one of a million cuts, now we’re just pulling the plug and entering the Brave New World in one blow. Comic retailers have repeatedly failed to adapt or change or evolve and so now they will die. That’s business.

    I’m not happy to see small businesses get shuttered, but the retailers have repeatedly shown they have neither the desire nor the ability to adapt to the 21st century. I mean ffs I saw retailers suggesting we make pandemic variant covers as a way to capitalize on the current situation. They haven’t got a clue of how to survive.
    Last edited by Vordan; 06-07-2020 at 11:47 AM.

  10. #190
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    If a 100 billion dollar company cant wait a few months for whats probably 6 weeks of outstanding payments from one tiny division then they are bankrupt themselves.
    Of course WB could survive without the Diamond money. But had they any reason to keep them around afterwards, or to give Diamond that credit any more time than absolutely necessary?
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Are you really out here defending Diamond? Dude if Diamond is having these type of problems, what the hell do you think is the long time viability of the current model? This right here is the problem, you and other retailers will whine about Diamond, but you don’t actually want anything to change.

    The current direct market is a house of cards built on variant covers, non-stop event comics, and reboots/relaunches. It’s not sustainable. It never was. DC is at least attempting to secure a future for the industry. Do you think AT&T or Disney give a damn about the print industry? You guys have also been crying wolf over digital, over trades, over EVERYTHING. I’m telling it to you straight: most of you were going to die anyway. It would’ve been a slow death, one of a million cuts, now we’re just pulling the plug and entering the Brave New World in one blow. Comic retailers have repeatedly failed to adapt or change or evolve and so now they will die. That’s business.
    Im not whining about diamond, im not whining about digital, im not whining about trades. Its all in your projecting mind, dude.

    Im not a retailer either so...
    Last edited by iron chimp; 06-07-2020 at 12:05 PM.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Of course WB could survive without the Diamond money. But had they any reason to keep them around afterwards, or to give Diamond that credit any more time than absolutely necessary?
    Because everyone will be sat on unpaid invoices, printers, diamond, suppliers. Its not like all this hasnt happened before during the crash. I dont agree with not paying the tiny companies at the bottom of the list but if the multi billion dollar companies are crying over waiting a few months for a few million dollars - thats beyond small time. If Wimbledon tennis tournament had insurance out against this type of eventuality then mr multi billion dollar company should too if you cant wait for one payment.

    Every single business in the world will at some time have to have waited for outstanding invoices - its hardly a shock at the best of times.

  13. #193
    Mighty Member Lonewolf36's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    Because everyone will be sat on unpaid invoices, printers, diamond, suppliers. Its not like all this hasnt happened before during the crash. I dont agree with not paying the tiny companies at the bottom of the list but if the multi billion dollar companies are crying over waiting a few months for a few million dollars - thats beyond small time. If Wimbledon tennis tournament had insurance out against this type of eventuality then mr multi billion dollar company should too if you cant wait for one payment.

    Every single business in the world will at some time have to have waited for outstanding invoices - its hardly a shock at the best of times.
    I see your point Diamond had the right to do it but DC also had the right to do what they did and i suspect there is more involved than the financial part and that it was just the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewolf36 View Post
    I see your point Diamond had the right to do it but DC also had the right to do what they did and i suspect there is more involved than the financial part and that it was just the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak.
    Diamond dont have the right not to pay but they could be sitting on millions of dollars of unpaid invoices to the shops some of will go bust and never get paid, and they are sitting on millions of dollars of outstanding invoices to suppliers.

    I dont think its some evil plot - its just a huge rupture in the cash flow.

    There will be plumbers, mechanics, hairdressers all in exactky the same boat. Its not some unique situation because of some evil monopoly.

    Dcs contract was up. They had every right to walk.

    BUT you have to leave as a collective, en masse, to keep the economies of scale in place to keep the books as cheap as possible to distribute, and the new distro has to be independent of the retailers and the publishers.

    Dc used to keep marvel off the stands in the 60s and in the 90s marvel tried to seize the distro for itself. If its not entirely independent of the other 2 bits of the chain then its open to being influenced or influencing what gets stocked

  15. #195
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Setting up alternative distribution channel that is going to distribute your monthly comics doesn't sound like something you'd do if you wanted to get out of monthly comics. So I don't get where people saying that DC doesn't care about monthlies are coming from.

    If they wanted to move out of monthly comics they could have just done that. And its not like they did this because they needed money, while Diamond was offline. This is an investment, they'll likely get back what they lost/invested only months (if not years) later even if it ends up working out.

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