DC Cuts Ties with Diamond

[HsssH]

They can't just say "OK, we're pulling all our monthly books." They have back orders to fulfill. The smart thing to do is slowly ease into it by pulling low selling books and severely reducing their inventory. But the infrastructure they are setting up suggests they are looking to be less monthly book centric.

So? You fulfill these back orders and move on. Whats the problem here?

If DC planned on maintaining their regular production, they wouldn't have bothered leaving Diamond in the first place. If "business as usual" was the post-covid19 goal, there's no point in setting up with new distributors and upsetting the status quo. As we've seen with this thread, there's a lot of potential fallout from this; shops not being able to afford DC's orders and losing money from Diamond discounts, boycotting DC, extra work put on the retailers, etc etc. This isn't what you do if you plan on staying in the same market, doing the same things you've done in the past. Or at least that's the conventional business wisdom I'm seeing, but I don't work in print or for DC.

Likely this has been planned for a while and they are not delaying their plans for covid crisis because nobody is sure when this crisis is going to end and few months later we might get a second wave. Besides, big opportunities arise usually during the time of crisis/chaos.

What DC can do is slowly shift their focus. Meet their current obligations and keep churning out floppies while building up a sizable selection of alternative products for alternative market release. That keeps money coming in while they prepare for whatever market/formats they're looking to get into.

Why can't they do these things while working with Diamond?

And getting out of the Diamond deal means Diamond can no longer pressure them and force them to stay in the direct market.

What? Diamond could pressure DC into releasing more monthly comics? Seriously?

[Gaastra]

Manga uses many distributors and many were still coming out after diamond shut down. You can still get the newest manga trade of case closed or one piece. It's never good to have all your eggs in one basket.

As for monthly (and weekly!) comics manga has them in black in white 200 page mags in little chapters with many stories per book on cheaper paper to cut cost.

There is a sunday mag also that's the size of a phone book and people get them sent to their house the same as newspapers!

You then get the trades for better papers! Japan has manga vending machines also at bus and airports and some airports have a manga area with bookcases of manga you can read for free! (and no one steals them!)

Also movie chains will see manga and toys based on the movies that are out! New detective conan movie out? There will be a display of toys, manga and other things based on it when you see the film! Why are there no spider-man or batman trades set up when their movies come out here?

American comic companies may want to look into what japan is doing.

[superduperman]

So? You fulfill these back orders and move on. Whats the problem here?

Well, for starters, we don't know how much of this is their decision and how much of this came from up top. DC seemed a lot less patient than other companies to get back to selling books. So much so that they were willing to set up their own distribution system to do it. Which suggests they are under a lot of pressure here. One theory that I heard for the New 52 was basically that Didio's job was on the line if he couldn't get sales up. Which suggests TPTB have been riding DC for a while now about their performance. A draw down of titles may be just what DC could talk them into. They may have wanted to keep doing monthly books but this was the compromise. This is all speculation but their impatience at getting books out suggests something more is going on that they aren't telling us about.

[scary harpy]

Well, for starters, we don't know how much of this is their decision and how much of this came from up top. DC seemed a lot less patient than other companies to get back to selling books. So much so that they were willing to set up their own distribution system to do it. Which suggests they are under a lot of pressure here. One theory that I heard for the New 52 was basically that Didio's job was on the line if he couldn't get sales up. Which suggests TPTB have been riding DC for a while now about their performance. A draw down of titles may be just what DC could talk them into. They may have wanted to keep doing monthly books but this was the compromise. This is all speculation but their impatience at getting books out suggests something more is going on that they aren't telling us about.

Could it have something to do with this?

But why is any of this happening at all? The gossip is that Pamela Lifford, President of Warner Bros. Consumer Products has no love for DC Comics monthly comic books. The belief from some is that they cost too much to make, they take up too much editorial and production time, everything is rushed to deadline which means the urgent often trumps the important decisions being made and – they bring in too little money, compared everything else they do. Don't get them wrong, they still make money, just not as much as all that prime Burbank real estate could make.

Instead, the gossip is that DC will focus on,, and rapidly expand, their original graphic novels line and the bookstore market, book fairs, libraries, Walmart


– and they may keep the Walmart


100-page giant comics. They've already cancelled them for the direct market through Diamond. And for easy, cheap serialisation, they have digital already.

Its been notable that the bookstore market for comics has been rapidly growing for a different, younger, more female market. Scholastic


book fairs and the like have seen Dav Pilkey and Raina Telegemeier sell millions and more and more graphic novels being signed up for the kids, middle grand and YA market. DC has had commercial and critical success in this market, the Titans OGNs rising up the bookstore sales charts and Harley Quinn grabbing all the Eisner nominations. And, hey, comic book stores can sell those DC books instead.

Graphic novels have a more forgiving timeframe than monthly serialised comic books. They are prepared and produced longer in advance, there's less of a rush to production, it's just a more pleasant environment all round. No events, no variants, just… comics. Now, this is just gossip right now, but it's from high levels in the industry. I'll see what shakes out over the weekend.

Again I ask, could she be correct?

[Hatut Zeraze]

How in the world could I possibly support buying comics from a store that wouldn't stock DC Comics?

[Ascended]

Why can't they do these things while working with Diamond?

What? Diamond could pressure DC into releasing more monthly comics? Seriously?

There's a few posts a page or two back that go into this better than I can, so I suggest checking those out. The short of it is that no, Diamond can't force DC to make more titles as in like, publish 75 books instead of 50, but as the sole distributor and go-between for retailers and publishers Diamond does have a lot of influence and can set certain conditions, costs, discount levels, etc, on both publishers and retailers. Things like encouraging retailers to under-order a comic, which can then mess with the publisher's discount with distribution and make them spend more money for shipping, while selling fewer copies and making less. Stuff like that. I don't work in print so the fine details are likely different from what I'm used to.

Bottom line, Diamond being the only distributor gave them a lot of influence and power; if a publisher did something they didn't like Diamond could retaliate and cost the publisher money, bullying the publisher into doing what Diamond wants. These new publishers could, in theory, try to do the same, but because these new guys aren't distributing for the whole industry they have far less influence and power than Diamond did. And if DC really is planning of shifting out of the LCS, these new guys probably know and don't care; they're already in the secondary discount business so while distribution is a nice uptick in revenue, it's not the only game they're in.

Likely this has been planned for a while and they are not delaying their plans for covid crisis because nobody is sure when this crisis is going to end and few months later we might get a second wave. Besides, big opportunities arise usually during the time of crisis/chaos.

That's my thought too. I don't think any of this is a spur of the moment decision, but circumstances may have made DC reveal what they're doing sooner than expected.

[iron chimp]

There's a few posts a page or two back that go into this better than I can, so I suggest checking those out. The short of it is that no, Diamond can't force DC to make more titles as in like, publish 75 books instead of 50, but as the sole distributor and go-between for retailers and publishers Diamond does have a lot of influence and can set certain conditions, costs, discount levels, etc, on both publishers and retailers. Things like encouraging retailers to under-order a comic, which can then mess with the publisher's discount with distribution and make them spend more money for shipping, while selling fewer copies and making less. Stuff like that. I don't work in print so the fine details are likely different from what I'm used to.

Bottom line, Diamond being the only distributor gave them a lot of influence and power; if a publisher did something they didn't like Diamond could retaliate and cost the publisher money, bullying the publisher into doing what Diamond wants. These new publishers could, in theory, try to do the same, but because these new guys aren't distributing for the whole industry they have far less influence and power than Diamond did. And if DC really is planning of shifting out of the LCS, these new guys probably know and don't care; they're already in the secondary discount business so while distribution is a nice uptick in revenue, it's not the only game they're in.



That's my thought too. I don't think any of this is a spur of the moment decision, but circumstances may have made DC reveal what they're doing sooner than expected.

Its long - about 4 posts - but it explains how dc ended up at diamond during the publisher wars of 90s, how diamond owed dc for their decision, and how everyone else went out of business.

https://www.milehighcomics.com/tales/cbg129.html

[Kevin Street]

I know, I know, LITG is a rumor site, so take this with the proverbial grain of salt. But they're the only ones talking about this particular aspect of what's happening:

UCS, Lunar, DC Comics – They Have A Plan For the UK and Beyond

... It's also an issue that no one at DC, Lunar or UCS seems to have considered before the announcement. DC sources told me that they just expected UK customers to use UCS or Lunar, not realising just how much of the shipping costs Diamond UK had managed to reduce with a central hub and bulk shipping savings by distributing the entire direct market.

But in further conversation with DC Comics, UCS and Lunar, I have been told that they have a plan. Lunar representatives told me "we are working out some options and asking those retailers that have inquired for feedback. How they currently receive their shipments, and what they would like to see from us ideally, and we will work from there. We will do our best to find the best options for them." While UCS representatives told me "we'll have an update on this in a few days"...

Not realizing! I'm guessing my country (Canada) buys as many DC comics as the UK, but even if it's less the combined total from both countries must be around 20%-30% of DC's market share. And they just made a decision that could lose that entire market share without even realizing the consequences...

I mean, there's a good chance that DC comics will be gone from my country when UCS and Lunar take over because it will become too expensive for the shops to import them. Just gone. And our only hope is that the new distributors may figure something out before then.

[skyvolt2000]

Again I ask, could she be correct?

Well look at the delay on Doomsday Clock. How many books got held up because of that one series? How many books got axed thanks to it? Books that were thought about but never made it to being leaked?

What got changed thanks to those delays?

You don't do all that stuff with Firestorm (along with getting rid of Jason) and tell me a mini or ongoing for him was NOT discussed?

What changed that made Reggie Long that he wasn't even a factor at the end?

With all those editors-how many badly edited books did we see? From New 52 Static Shock to even Heroes in Crisis had issues. From story line to art NOT being correct.

Now YES she is correct these books should be bringing in more money. Yet the folks you had or still have in charge don't get that.


So if you are her. Who are YOU going to invest in?

The market that has trolls and want to limit everything or the market that says GIMME MORE?

[Vakanai]

Well look at the delay on Doomsday Clock. How many books got held up because of that one series? How many books got axed thanks to it? Books that were thought about but never made it to being leaked?

What got changed thanks to those delays?

You don't do all that stuff with Firestorm (along with getting rid of Jason) and tell me a mini or ongoing for him was NOT discussed?

What changed that made Reggie Long that he wasn't even a factor at the end?

With all those editors-how many badly edited books did we see? From New 52 Static Shock to even Heroes in Crisis had issues. From story line to art NOT being correct.

Now YES she is correct these books should be bringing in more money. Yet the folks you had or still have in charge don't get that.


So if you are her. Who are YOU going to invest in?

The market that has trolls and want to limit everything or the market that says GIMME MORE?

Which market has trolls and which is saying gimme more? Ask because online it feels like everywhere and everything is trolls and gimme more peeps.

[iron chimp]

Now YES she is correct these books should be bringing in more money. Yet the folks you had or still have in charge don't get that.


So if you are her. Who are YOU going to invest in?

I agree with that but conversely

Grant Morrison said he got $1 per copy of Arkham asylum - in the first year he made $250,000.

Killing joke is still a big seller over 30 years later.

Enemy Ace was really superb

Im sure people can think of other ogns
H

So they were doing OGNs and they had some very big hits. Why did you stop?

They dominated trades sales in book store - year in year out vertigo and their trades of prestige arcs in their monthly comics dominated.

They completely blew that too.

None of that is comic shops, floppies, or distros fault. It was DC pissing away their dominance.

They let alan moore, frank miller, brian k vaughan, ed brubaker, brian wood, garth ennis walk out the door. Grant Morrison even left at one point. They even let tom king walk out the door - and hes their only writer who sells books on his name alone.

Its the equivalent of a having a record label and watching the beatles, bob marley, hendrix, and marvin gaye walk out the door. Just awful a&r.

Yr sole competition was a company that went bankrupt and sold its assests off in a fire sale and a company that could barely get a book out in image. So you sat back and let marvel build a film empire to dwarf yours out of the ashes with $50m while yr film studio wouldnt go near yr properties and watched image get itself disciplined and in fighting shape and take vertigo off you. You then sat back and watch your old authors at image get tv and fim deals off their own back when you had a film studio but wouldnt let them use it.

You pushed fantagraphics, drawn and quarterly, slave labor et al off the floppy shelves and watched them rebuild as ogn publishers - again you did nothing.

You publish one story 50 times a month (something happens, someone tries to stop it and fails, it gets worse, then they rally and stop it) and you wonder why you cant attract more people.

[Username taken]

There's a few posts a page or two back that go into this better than I can, so I suggest checking those out. The short of it is that no, Diamond can't force DC to make more titles as in like, publish 75 books instead of 50, but as the sole distributor and go-between for retailers and publishers Diamond does have a lot of influence and can set certain conditions, costs, discount levels, etc, on both publishers and retailers. Things like encouraging retailers to under-order a comic, which can then mess with the publisher's discount with distribution and make them spend more money for shipping, while selling fewer copies and making less. Stuff like that. I don't work in print so the fine details are likely different from what I'm used to.

Bottom line, Diamond being the only distributor gave them a lot of influence and power; if a publisher did something they didn't like Diamond could retaliate and cost the publisher money, bullying the publisher into doing what Diamond wants. These new publishers could, in theory, try to do the same, but because these new guys aren't distributing for the whole industry they have far less influence and power than Diamond did. And if DC really is planning of shifting out of the LCS, these new guys probably know and don't care; they're already in the secondary discount business so while distribution is a nice uptick in revenue, it's not the only game they're in.



That's my thought too. I don't think any of this is a spur of the moment decision, but circumstances may have made DC reveal what they're doing sooner than expected.

Quoted for truth.

The lockdown was basically the eye opener for DC and pretty much made everyone realize just how much influence Diamond wielded.

What DC is doing now is something that myself and Redjack (creator of Mosaic at Marvel) pretty much predicted some years back would happen. The DM is far too static and since comics have left grocery stores and supermarkets, there’s almost nowhere to get comics to buy for the causal fan. The big publishers were always going to do something like this and the lockdown was just the trigger DC needed. Yes, the DM pretty much guarantees sales but one has to look at the bigger picture here. Should Batman and Superman be selling a couple of thousands of floppies a month considering how well they are known and how much they generate from other sources? I.e movies, games, merchandise etc. Factor in how much it costs to produce this stuff (and how much creators are paid) and any rational company will start to ask itself some very hard questions.

I fully expect Marvel to follow suit but not immediately. When you look at the bookstore market and how manga still sells massive there, it stands to reason that note effort needs to be made to cater other markets outside the DM. DC is clearly not abandoning the DM but they’ve recognized the weakness in it and needed to do something. Whether this is the right move only time will tell.

[scary harpy]

Well look at the delay on Doomsday Clock. How many books got held up because of that one series? How many books got axed thanks to it? Books that were thought about but never made it to being leaked?

What got changed thanks to those delays?

You don't do all that stuff with Firestorm (along with getting rid of Jason) and tell me a mini or ongoing for him was NOT discussed?

What changed that made Reggie Long that he wasn't even a factor at the end?

With all those editors-how many badly edited books did we see? From New 52 Static Shock to even Heroes in Crisis had issues. From story line to art NOT being correct.

Now YES she is correct these books should be bringing in more money. Yet the folks you had or still have in charge don't get that.


So if you are her. Who are YOU going to invest in?

The market that has trolls and want to limit everything or the market that says GIMME MORE?

Good to know.

Economist Herbert Stein's old adage -- "If something cannot go on forever, it will stop" --

DC seems to be at a stopping point. I love the characters...but not the stories anymore. Somehow I'm not upset...yet.

iron chimp: I had some trouble following your post...but I think I agreed with it.

[superduperman]

Looks like DC's moving forward with the whole digital thing:

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/rumo...ng-initiative/

[botolo]

DC does not reliably distribute to Australia?

Mile High's reaction (the "DC Sucks" sale) is just...petty.

They are going to need to sell DC, no matter what happens.

I am not sure about this. Their main source of income are back-issues. I visited their majestic store a few months ago, and the area for new issues was fairly small and most of the titles were sold oit. In fact, what Chuck says is that stores need to shift their business model and become less dependent from the monthly comics because stuff like this can happen, or publishers might shift to digital more and more.