X-World without Xavier or Magneto

[Rev9]

Maybe this is offtopic but I really want the origin of the X gene explored.I start from cosmological backdrop let's say there is a primordial phoenix force that created life as a legacy the X gene is like a marker this force leaves on humans so that they could be receptive to commune with the phoenix force,the opposite of the phoenix force is the first fallen a force that seeks out only a select genetic makeup that lacks the mark to perpetuate a pure distinct race that is immune to phoenix influence.So both races have unique abilities, Apocalypse and Selene were selected by the phoenix as immortal guardians of humanity but Selene fell in love with a member of the first fallen and she had to consume a death seed to be able to be one with his kind.She was tricked into doing so ,so that she could siphon life out of people to make them receptive to the FF.While she lost her soul rendering her immortal.Her soul through a ritual was transferred into Apocalypse her co immortal.This did not make him mortal but necessitated and explained why he needed host bodies because his essence is double charged and so burnt through his own initial body and another's he inhibits unless through celestial technology.That would give a background to the two externals.Explaining why Apocalypse loaths weakness and love and is still tied to his mission that once the X gene is dominant to summon the phoenix he will be free of his immortal burden.While Selene seeks death as she serves a being of annihilation of all phoenix created creatures.Through time those manifesting X gene became many and wanted to live without being beholden to Selene's treachery or Apocalypse's vengeance. All that being said sure we can have X-Men without Magneto or Xavier,once you have the bigger picture, other titular mutant figures can be substitutes for them and the cause can be expanded for example one can say Elixir is a leader of a mutant faction who wants to activate the healing gene in humanity but cannot heal mutants and so this puzzles him and leads him to discover something unique about mutants and he finds out the lore and secrets behind the mutant phenomenon

[Veitha]

OMG, you could have so much fun with this! Cyclops leads the Brotherhood of evil mutants, and Pyro, Blob, and Avalanche were in the original X-Men team under Jean and Emma!

Just completely mix it up, with characters all over the place in unexpected teams! Emma saved her brother Christian much earlier, and she introduced him to Bobby Drake and Bobby and Christian are married and work with Emma at the school! Of course Hank became Dark Beast in this reality, just because! Hank McCoy is the Mr Sinister of this AU Universe!

Kate Pryde was taken by Apocalypse and became his most dangerous horseman, Death!

I love this! I'd keep Kitty under Emma but she becomes her spy/secret agent. Or maybe give Ems Firestar instead. The Hellions are now the New Mutants.

Scott, Havok, Vulcan, Sway, Petra and Polaris as the Brotherhood. Jean then joins them and becomes their leader.

[RachelGrey]

I love this! I'd keep Kitty under Emma but she becomes her spy/secret agent. Or maybe give Ems Firestar instead. The Hellions are now the New Mutants.

Scott, Havok, Vulcan, Sway, Petra and Polaris as the Brotherhood. Jean then joins them and becomes their leader.

haha, and Scott hates Jean because she took over the Brotherhood from him!

Mystique and Destiny run the Hellfire Club as Black Queens and Sebastian Shaw is dead, just because he should be! Storm is the White Queen of the Hellfire Club!

[pkingdom]

Looking at his Secret Warriors, it would have ended bad. Very bad.

Never read it, so I can't comment. But Fury has his share of terribleness so I'll take your word for it.

Why don't we go a step further with this. Not only Xavier and Magneto, but all/most of the big power players are gone. Just never existed. For simplicity's sake, let's say the whole Quiet Council is gone. Moira dies and accidentally retcons them all out of existence or something. What happens? Would the world be better off? Would mutants be better off? Worse off?

[WhiteBishop94]

There are some great ideas in this thread! They’re making me want to go off and write a really detailed AU fan-fic I swear!

I can see a lot of the mutants being really different without Xavier. For one, he’s helped so many mutants Find themselves and control their powers, train them up. When Cyclops gets his powers as a teen, I can see him being accepted as a Morlock and eventually leading them. I think Jean would have a deeper connection with the phoenix and her abilities, but I also like the idea of her teaming up with Emma to start a school. I could even see Moira learning from her past lives, taking Charles and Eric out and trying to lead things herself to see if that could change anything. Without the coordination of the X-Men, I wonder what disasters would befall the world. Would anything actually kill them sooner? Would they even be called X-Men without Xavier?

[Veitha]

There are some great ideas in this thread! They’re making me want to go off and write a really detailed AU fan-fic I swear!

I can see a lot of the mutants being really different without Xavier. For one, he’s helped so many mutants Find themselves and control their powers, train them up. When Cyclops gets his powers as a teen, I can see him being accepted as a Morlock and eventually leading them. I think Jean would have a deeper connection with the phoenix and her abilities, but I also like the idea of her teaming up with Emma to start a school. I could even see Moira learning from her past lives, taking Charles and Eric out and trying to lead things herself to see if that could change anything. Without the coordination of the X-Men, I wonder what disasters would befall the world. Would anything actually kill them sooner? Would they even be called X-Men without Xavier?

Yeah Moira shows that the X-Men are a good thing that should happen.

I wonder if, had she been younger, she would have skipped Xavier and Magneto and look after other mutant leaders.

[pkingdom]

Yeah Moira shows that the X-Men are a good thing that should happen.

I wonder if, had she been younger, she would have skipped Xavier and Magneto and look after other mutant leaders.

Did she? In many of her lives she didn't bother letting them even form.

Side note: it annoyed me to no end that most of Moira's lives were her throwing her support behind powerful men and their ideologies rather than doing something on her own. It honestly felt a little sexist.

[Havok83]

Did she? In many of her lives she didn't bother letting them even form.

Side note: it annoyed me to no end that most of Moira's lives were her throwing her support behind powerful men and their ideologies rather than doing something on her own. It honestly felt a little sexist.

That seems to only be a thing in lives 8 and 9 when she joins up with Magneto and Apocalypse respectively. She was on her own for lives 3 and 7. She and Xavier seemed like equal partners in life 4. She may be behind the scenes in her current life, but alot of decisions were based off of her own ideologies and what she's learned. Besides I dont see a problem with this. She doesnt have any active powers. Her main asset is her knowledge nad the way for someone like her to act is in the shadows, manipulating others, which yes included powerful men. Are we really sure the men were doing what they wanted or did Moira have a big influence on them?

[The tall man]

Did she? In many of her lives she didn't bother letting them even form.

Side note: it annoyed me to no end that most of Moira's lives were her throwing her support behind powerful men and their ideologies rather than doing something on her own. It honestly felt a little sexist.

She doesn't have the power to do her own thing on a grand scale. Reincarnation is her only power and its limited to a handful of times, plus if she uses it she undoes whatever she accomplishes. Charles and Magneto have active abilities that can used to futher their goals, Moira can only hope to convince others to join her provided they don't think she's crazy with her story of past lives. Simply put this is most likely her last life/chance and Xavier and Magneto were two of the most powerful mutants that she could ally with at the time to give mutants a fighting chance. Which female mutants of significant power could she turn to that early in time to affect change? Storm, Jean and Emma were essentially too young and non-factors at the time and I don't think she would turn to Selene who probably wouldn't give a damm. Xavier and Magneto were her best options and despite her operating in the background(her own choice) she had and continues to have significant influence in Krakoa affairs( she as admitted that she has manipulated Xavier for her own agenda and has kept things from him and Magneto) . The whole Krakoa era in basically the Charles, Moira and Erik show.

[pkingdom]

That's fair, but it does get right back to the problem of the fate of mutantkind being entirely based around two old privileged white guys. Its kind of ridiculous.

[Rev9]

That's fair, but it does get right back to the problem of the fate of mutantkind being entirely based around two old privileged white guys. Its kind of ridiculous.

You do realise the same can be said of Emma and Jean if they were to have X-Men universe around them.In fact for me Emma has been an obnoxious arrogant character(I guess that is her shtick) but for me an X-Men led by Emma would be very uncomfortable,at least Jean is tolerable

[Maestro 216]

I do agree with the idea of mutants not having to be in a two sided war. There are many mutants who might not care about Xavier or Magneto's cause.

[pkingdom]

You do realise the same can be said of Emma and Jean if they were to have X-Men universe around them.In fact for me Emma has been an obnoxious arrogant character(I guess that is her shtick) but for me an X-Men led by Emma would be very uncomfortable,at least Jean is tolerable

Oh absolutely. And it would just be swapping 2 privileged white men for 2 privileged white women. Most of whom are American. The shear lack of diversity and international differences in mutants has always been a major problem. And I'm with you on hating Emma. She's basically female Xavier: rich, white, straight, privileged with a power she can hide that has only made her life easier for her. I would much rather mutants be lead by someone like Nightcrawler or even Toad or Blob. Someone who can't hide their powers and isn't a privileged pretty person.

[Devaishwarya]

I do agree with the idea of mutants not having to be in a two sided war. There are many mutants who might not care about Xavier or Magneto's cause.

That is true. But...

Being mutants, that war with humanity still affects them directly, regardless of their stance, like the mutants who were being incarcerated and oppressed in Russia and caged and tested on in the Orchis Plant (in X-Men 01)

[Steel Inquisitor]

That is true. But...

Being mutants, that war with humanity still affects them directly, regardless of their stance, like the mutants who were being incarcerated and oppressed in Russia and caged and tested on in the Orchis Plant (in X-Men 01)

All that explains is the situation they're in not why they should be siding with Magneto or Xavier. In fact, a big reason why Xavier's dream hasn't arrives is because of mutant super-villains who try to kill the X-men for daring to interfere from them doing things like massacring humans for spells (Selene) or Apocalypse with his world domination schemes, for example - after M-Day he gave an ultimatum to the United nations: either they destroy 90% of humanity's population to create a evenly matched final conflict between mutants and humanity or he'll unleash a plague to destroy humanity utterly. These incidents are crucial to how it got this bad, and those mutant don't have tiniest remorse over it. And without Xavier or Magneto they'd be filling the gap on the darker side of the mutant population. The human bigots had a large impact on this dire state of affairs but they wouldn't get as far as they did with mutant super-villains providing the worst PR for mutants that they're monsters who will destroy humanity.