X-World without Xavier or Magneto

[Draegwolf]

Yeah you see here's the thing a lot of people seem to be forgetting, without Xavier around to help them a lot of the X-Men's lives would be drastically different than they are now. Cyclops & Jean would never have gotten to where they are right now if Charles hadn't come and fetched them, Storm would probably be a vessel for the Shadow King or at the very least remained in Africa, Wolverine might still be part of Department H if he wasn't just shuffled off to another government program or went rogue entirely, etc.

I do not believe for a moment that Scott would have risen to any position of leadership within the mutant community without Xavier there to guide him or Jean's influence to push him, especially with Sinister keeping tabs on him from behind the scenes. Jean would have never developed the level of control she has over her powers without Xavier giving her the necessary training to do so. Without Scott & Jean getting together in any capacity there would be no Rachel or Cable. Logan would probably still psychologically be a mess from years of mind control and tampering.

World without Xavier or Magneto ...

This is pretty much my point, in every alternate reality that Xavier and/or Magneto aren't around Marvel acts like things would spiral out to the worst possible outcome vs life going on as normal. Too many variables exist to make me believe that any one individual would be able to swoop in and just take over. Even without Xavier the X-Men were always going to pop up, it was always just going to be a matter of when and who.

[Havok83]

I think we saw the X-men without Xavier and Magneto pre and post HoM, most of the decimation era, Utopia and back at the mansion after their war with the Inhumans. Cyclops was the leader for most of this period, then it was Logan, Kitty on X-men Gold, Storm and Magneto on X-men Blue but he shared most of it with the O5. Multiple man also had a very interesting run with X-factor Investigations that was quite good and even had his doubts about Scott´s leadership,during the Utopia era, withougoing overborad with it the way Logan did.

Before HoM we even had Claremont´s 80´s X-men with Storm as the main X-leader and Scott with the O5 X-men over at X-factor, the 90´s were the time where Xavier shinned the most as leader of the X-men imo.

Now with Hickman we are back with Xavier at the center so I think in the end because of the nature of comics things will be different after Hickman is done with the story. I think he should use more most of the characters at his dispossal and going out with less known X-men who have not had the chance to have their stories told in a long time but this doesn´t mean Xavier or Magneto are always at the center specially since for a long while before Hickman´s era they were absent or as supporting characters.

On the other hand I can understand and agree with the need to see other X-characters besides the main ones, specially Xavier and Magneto, as more than cameos on the different titles, if we could see this I think it would be good for the franchise.

You completely missed his point.

Cyclops vs Jean Grey would be likely successors, him for Magneto and her for Xavier. Storm would be great, too.

Jean vs Polaris would be better and honestly what should have been done in ResurrXion

[Riv86672]

Wanda w. Franklin Richards on the Xavier side of things.
Their connections to the Avengers, the FF, the Inhumans, their blended family roots, they’re all about solidarity and cooperation.

Apocalypse on the Magneto side of things.
His closed minded only the powerful and pure to hell w. everyone else approach will surely appeal to a more easily led demographic.

[Veitha]

Who's Wanda

[Ferro]

Wanda w. Franklin Richards on the Xavier side of things.
Their connections to the Avengers, the FF, the Inhumans, their blended family roots, they’re all about solidarity and cooperation.

Apocalypse on the Magneto side of things.
His closed minded only the powerful and pure to hell w. everyone else approach will surely appeal to a more easily led demographic.

why is a non mutant involved in mutant issues or even leadership? wanda isnt a. mutant or an x-men, she lacks that one "conection" that matters"
and solidarity ??? dont make me laugh, those never had any for mutants, not in genosha, not in the decimation, not when the phoenix came and certainnly not during the terrigen crisis.

[Havok83]

Who's Wanda

The Scarlet Bitch

[Ferro]

The Scarlet Bitch

also the woman in such a desperate need for traditional western values of nuclear family and stability she made up half of said family.
who pretty much never not once spoke up about mutants or in "solidarity" to the x-men

[Michael Watkins]

Magneto is my favorite mutant. That’s going to be a no from me dawg.

[Draegwolf]

Ignoring the retcon let's also consider that there's a chance that characters like Legion, Polaris, Scarlet Witch & Quicksilver probably won't exist depending whether Xavier and Magneto lived long enough to have them. Very good chance that none of them were ever born in this hypothetical timeline or that they'd be drastically different from their mainstream counterparts as a result of the change to the timeline.

[BlkGldBlu]

Yeah you see here's the thing a lot of people seem to be forgetting, without Xavier around to help them a lot of the X-Men's lives would be drastically different than they are now. Cyclops & Jean would never have gotten to where they are right now if Charles hadn't come and fetched them, Storm would probably be a vessel for the Shadow King or at the very least remained in Africa, Wolverine might still be part of Department H if he wasn't just shuffled off to another government program or went rogue entirely, etc.

I do not believe for a moment that Scott would have risen to any position of leadership within the mutant community without Xavier there to guide him or Jean's influence to push him, especially with Sinister keeping tabs on him from behind the scenes. Jean would have never developed the level of control she has over her powers without Xavier giving her the necessary training to do so. Without Scott & Jean getting together in any capacity there would be no Rachel or Cable. Logan would probably still psychologically be a mess from years of mind control and tampering.



This is pretty much my point, in every alternate reality that Xavier and/or Magneto aren't around Marvel acts like things would spiral out to the worst possible outcome vs life going on as normal. Too many variables exist to make me believe that any one individual would be able to swoop in and just take over. Even without Xavier the X-Men were always going to pop up, it was always just going to be a matter of when and who.

Pretty much this.
I would Say maybe Sinister would have fetch Scott (w/o jean )probably would if been an Acolyte or Muarader.
W/jean love would have guided their moral compass and eventually took Sinister down. Forming some form of Xfactor.
Jean would have probably been a prototype Hound cause that level of uncontrollable ability theres no way the government hasn't found you. maybe NFury would have made her a SWORD agent and alt Phoenix story line would have played out.
I don't see a good road for Beast. Either wrap up in Sinister or Apocalypse hold. Maybe after Wanad Quicksilver Maybe still becomes an avengers.
Iceman would have been a teen vigilant like Spiderman maybe the would have been a duo. But ultimately killed by antimutant humans.
Angle would have brought his way into the avengers.
Or go the Batman route with his money.
Sad to say when it comes to Storm she would have been Shadow King's puppet. The most one could hope for is Mutant puberty kicks in an her natural defense help helps her break his hold and the rest of her life plays out like HoM.
Peter would have been part of the Russian government. Matter fact all three of the Rasputin would have been working for the Russian Government.
Nightcrawler would be Dead , Priest, or an Avenger due to his Swashbuckling ways.
Wolverine would be working for some form of government or would be on the run. World Most Wanted.
Kitty Spiderman route or Emma would have found her.
Rouge would have been working on some Government Mutant team oversaw by Mystique..
I see a lot of Government or Avengers alternative. Or just dead.
Is it weird to think Nick Fury would have been the true alternative plan for most of the XMen/ Mutants

[yogaflame]

I guess it's all the cartoons, but I can't stand it when people think Shadow King owned Ororo as a child. He didn't. Ororo was essentially the ward of Achmed El Gibar, the king of thieves in Cairo, and had no relationship with Shadow King. Shadow King was also in Cairo, and may or may not have been aware of Achmed and Ororo, but it was only by happenstance that Ororo ran near Shadow King's bar when evading from Charles(after having stolen his wallet), and it was him using his psi powers to stop her that alerted SK to his presence(which led to their duel). That's the origin of SK's beef with Ororo(although an ancestral promise has also been thrown out there in the canon). Ororo never worked for Shadow King, and other than that brief time in Nightcrawler's solo, SK has never been able to control Ororo against her will.

[The tall man]

Pretty much this.
I would Say maybe Sinister would have fetch Scott (w/o jean )probably would if been an Acolyte or Muarader.
W/jean love would have guided their moral compass and eventually took Sinister down. Forming some form of Xfactor.
Jean would have probably been a prototype Hound cause that level of uncontrollable ability theres no way the government hasn't found you. maybe NFury would have made her a SWORD agent and alt Phoenix story line would have played out.
I don't see a good road for Beast. Either wrap up in Sinister or Apocalypse hold. Maybe after Wanad Quicksilver Maybe still becomes an avengers.
Iceman would have been a teen vigilant like Spiderman maybe the would have been a duo. But ultimately killed by antimutant humans.
Angle would have brought his way into the avengers.
Or go the Batman route with his money.
Sad to say when it comes to Storm she would have been Shadow King's puppet. The most one could hope for is Mutant puberty kicks in an her natural defense help helps her break his hold and the rest of her life plays out like HoM.
Peter would have been part of the Russian government. Matter fact all three of the Rasputin would have been working for the Russian Government.
Nightcrawler would be Dead , Priest, or an Avenger due to his Swashbuckling ways.
Wolverine would be working for some form of government or would be on the run. World Most Wanted.
Kitty Spiderman route or Emma would have found her.
Rouge would have been working on some Government Mutant team oversaw by Mystique..
I see a lot of Government or Avengers alternative. Or just dead.
Is it weird to think Nick Fury would have been the true alternative plan for most of the XMen/ Mutants

I agree. Xavier gets a lot of crap and some is rightfully deserved but without him a heck of a lot of X-men would have ended up in a terrible place. Many probably wouldn't even be alive now and the X-men as we know them wouldn't exist. Now maybe a group of mutants would have banded together to fight for the betterment of mutantkind, but they wouldn't be the X-men and have the influence or triumphs of the X-men. Would they have dealt with the Phoenix force, the Shi'ar empire, the Brood and the myriad powerful/evil mutants and organizations? I think Xavier was pivotal for mutantkind and ultimately things would be worse if he never existed. As for Magneto, I think he plays an important role in mutant affairs but ultimately is not as necessary as Xavier was/is. Remove him from the equation and not much really happens. In fact one could say that perhaps mutants would have been better off without a Magneto and his Brotherhood engaging in criminal activity. But in the end things in the 616 turned out how they were supposed to, but then again mutant Moira and her past lives may invalidate everything so who knows.

[pkingdom]

Xavier and Magneto are both terrible and their continued domination of X books and mythos is a blight on the series. That the entire status of a minority race hinges on the attitudes and behavior of two old white guys is laughable. If everyone else is just a little lost lamb that latches onto whichever is still around, or gets to them first, it makes almost every member of the X-men into pathetic followers with no agency of their own. If the only thing that makes someone like Wolverine from being a loyal soldier to Apocalypse is just Xavier being around and talking to him first, then Wolverine was never a good person.

The Moira retcon torpedoes any goodwill Xavier might have had, because it turns his relationship with the rest of the X-men into a lifetime of gaslighting to get them to this master plan. The Cerebro retcon means he was preparing for every mutant death at all times, but ignoring every human death caused by any of the X related disasters. And so on.

[Glio]

Xavier and Magneto are both terrible and their continued domination of X books and mythos is a blight on the series. That the entire status of a minority race hinges on the attitudes and behavior of two old white guys is laughable. If everyone else is just a little lost lamb that latches onto whichever is still around, or gets to them first, it makes almost every member of the X-men into pathetic followers with no agency of their own. If the only thing that makes someone like Wolverine from being a loyal soldier to Apocalypse is just Xavier being around and talking to him first, then Wolverine was never a good person.

The Moira retcon torpedoes any goodwill Xavier might have had, because it turns his relationship with the rest of the X-men into a lifetime of gaslighting to get them to this master plan. The Cerebro retcon means he was preparing for every mutant death at all times, but ignoring every human death caused by any of the X related disasters. And so on.

"The one you considered your mentor turns out to be a shitty person" and "The leader is a hypocrite with privileges" is not that they are especially novel or strange concepts in any narrative.

[Havok83]

Xavier and Magneto are both terrible and their continued domination of X books and mythos is a blight on the series. That the entire status of a minority race hinges on the attitudes and behavior of two old white guys is laughable. If everyone else is just a little lost lamb that latches onto whichever is still around, or gets to them first, it makes almost every member of the X-men into pathetic followers with no agency of their own. If the only thing that makes someone like Wolverine from being a loyal soldier to Apocalypse is just Xavier being around and talking to him first, then Wolverine was never a good person.

The Moira retcon torpedoes any goodwill Xavier might have had, because it turns his relationship with the rest of the X-men into a lifetime of gaslighting to get them to this master plan. The Cerebro retcon means he was preparing for every mutant death at all times, but ignoring every human death caused by any of the X related disasters. And so on.

X was terrible but Hickman has breathed in new life into them and has made Xavier interesting again. I dont think Magneto has really suffered

How did the Moira retcon torpedo Xavier's goodwill? He's by and large been considered a shady character for the past 20 years with other retcons already ruining him. His dream was built on lies and that didnt just start with HoX