Batwoman (CW) VS Black Widow (MCU)

[master of read]

Btw, how are we going to treat feats of Batwoman in season 2? I'm assuming we just treat her as a seperate Batwoman?

given what info we have so far, it seems they are just gonna go with a different character all together instead of just recasting kate.

[Slade1]

Yes, they're using Ryan Wilder, but it's still going to be Batwoman.

[Kuro]

Did they write her out or are they just going to replace the actor and nobody in Gotham will ask why she is a different woman altogether?

[FrenchGemini]

Let's wait and see, apparently one of the showrunners said they would write Kate out, but people are already petitioning to keep Kate, even with a new actress.

But back on topic, yeah, Kate's bulletproof Batsuit won't protect her from the asskicking coming her way, from the little I've seen from Batwoman, I am almost tempted to say she is one of the least skilled Badass Normals in the Arrowverse so far (not the least skilled, but not that impressive either).

However, she does have one good speed feat at 9:22 on Guy's video, I mean how close from her face was that grappling hook before she started dodging? Might be an outlier given the rest though.

[Hazard]

So, this may have already been posted, but I really like that moment in... Iron Man 2, I think, where Happy is fighting one of the goons in a long drawn out fight and as it is happening we see Nat is taking every other armed goon in the place. It made a nice contrast, because Happy doesn't end up looking weak. It makes you understand Widow is just that good.

[Anarchist]

Yes, they're using Ryan Wilder, but it's still going to be Batwoman.

But a different one, so yeah, obviously we are gonna judge her on her own.

Btw, while I'm all for Nat winning this, I don't quite see the logic in Kate being judged weak based on her defeats at Alice's hands. Sure, we don't know how Alice became so good, but since when has this ever mattered? It's her consistent level of skill, it doesn't matter where it came from.

We also don't know how MCU Wilson Fisk went from a chubby boy who just barely killed his dad from behind with a hammer to a hulking brute that can crush people's heads with car doors or break a man's spine with his bare hands.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

I mean to be fair he used the corner of a brick wall to break a man's spine.

[FrenchGemini]

But a different one, so yeah, obviously we are gonna judge her on her own.

Btw, while I'm all for Nat winning this, I don't quite see the logic in Kate being judged weak based on her defeats at Alice's hands. Sure, we don't know how Alice became so good, but since when has this ever mattered? It's her consistent level of skill, it doesn't matter where it came from.

As far as I am concerned, having, once again, seen not that much of Batwoman, it's not just the defeats. It's more about the fact that she doesn't seem that impressive in general, she doesn't have the consistent one-hit KO power of Bale Batman, nor the skill and speed (outside of the one feat I mentioned in my previous post) of Sara Lance or Oliver Queen, the damage soak of Netflix Matt Murdock outside of the suit.

From what I have seen, in the Arrowverse, I'd place her above Earth-1 Laurel and Mr Terrific, obviously, above Dinah Drake (Canary Cry put aside) and Wild Dog as well. I think she could take Roy Harper from what I remember too. If we start talking about someone like Diggle or (depowered) Slade though, eh, I don't know... And let's not start on named characters who've had, directly or indirectly, League of Assassins training at one point or another. Maybe that paragraph deserves its own thread though.

Also, if someone wants to prove me wrong, please feel free to do so .

[master of read]

As far as I am concerned, having, once again, seen not that much of Batwoman, it's not just the defeats. It's more about the fact that she doesn't seem that impressive in general, she doesn't have the consistent one-hit KO power of Bale Batman, nor the skill and speed (outside of the one feat I mentioned in my previous post) of Sara Lance or Oliver Queen, the damage soak of Netflix Matt Murdock outside of the suit.

From what I have seen, in the Arrowverse, I'd place her above Earth-1 Laurel and Mr Terrific, obviously, above Dinah Drake (Canary Cry put aside) and Wild Dog as well. I think she could take Roy Harper from what I remember too. If we start talking about someone like Diggle or (depowered) Slade though, eh, I don't know... And let's not start on named characters who've had, directly or indirectly, League of Assassins training at one point or another. Maybe that paragraph deserves its own thread though.

Also, if someone wants to prove me wrong, please feel free to do so .

pretty much. i mean, with 20 eps, we just don't have enough high end feats to know what exactly is "high end" for kate.

[Guy1]

pretty much. i mean, with 20 eps, we just don't have enough high end feats to know what exactly is "high end" for kate.

Apparently she tops out at Alice level.

[FrenchGemini]

Apparently she tops out at Alice level.

So... maybe this thread should be Alice vs Black Widow?

[Guy1]

So... maybe this thread should be Alice vs Black Widow?

Well given that Alice doesn't even wear body armor, Natasha just shoots her too.

[master of read]

Well given that Alice doesn't even wear body armor, Natasha just shoots her too.

or straight beats the crap out of her. either would be good for Alice.

[Steel Inquisitor]

From what I have seen, in the Arrowverse, I'd place her above Earth-1 Laurel and Mr Terrific, obviously, above Dinah Drake (Canary Cry put aside) and Wild Dog as well. I think she could take Roy Harper from what I remember too. If we start talking about someone like Diggle or (depowered) Slade though, eh, I don't know... And let's not start on named characters who've had, directly or indirectly, League of Assassins training at one point or another. Maybe that paragraph deserves its own thread though.

Also, if someone wants to prove me wrong, please feel free to do so .

I'd put her below many of the Arrow crew, including the ones listed - aside from Mr. Terrific and Earth 1 Laurel. She'd be above Roy Harper, pre serum, but after that he just keeps getting stronger and more skilled. Same for pre-training Thea after training I'd bet on her over Kate, she as doing well fighting with Malcolm, despite him holding back he's still a very tough opponent and above Alice. Dinah's a fairly strong fighter, even without her Canary Cry. Wild Dog's at the bottom so maybe he'd be in her league but later on he gets stronger, as well.

Edit: Wild Dog makes up for his lack of skill with bullets, the costume may be bullet proof but she isn't.

[Powerboy]

I've only seen a few episodes of Batwoman so far. I saw the one where nothing could damage the batsuit except for a special gun made by Bruce Wayne himself.

I'm also guessing that Kate doesn't, y'know, raise her arms to protect her face when someone shoots at her?

Apparently, we also have the contradiction that the suit can stop bullets with no harm to the wearer but a non-powered human can hit hard enough to hurt the wearer?

I very much get the feeling they intended to portray Kate as learning to be Batwoman on the job.

Natasha is at the height of her game when we meet her and taking out a room full of guys with guns while tied to a chair. If the batsuit's weakness to hand to hand hits is consistent, Natasha has this. Really, even if the weakness to hits by hand is not consistent, Natasha has plenty of joint locks. She's got this.