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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I'm sure DC wants the "Joker's girlfriend" niche filled, and you're right it's a role that's been carved out enough for DC to want someone in that position, but that doesn't mean Punchline is going to prove popular enough to hold it. She might, I'm not saying Punchline is awful and will never last six months; I haven't read the books to have an opinion on her. But if DC gets this "right" in one go, I'd be surprised and impressed.









    Eh, maybe Cass wasn't the best of examples, but my point still came across right?

    Regarding Cass......in the last ten-ish years, how much play has she gotten? Far as I know, she was missing for years after the New52 started, showed up in that weekly Batman title, then was limited to rare and occasional guest appearances until Tynion's 'Tec, then spent several more months (maybe a whole year?) waiting for Outsiders to hit. Am I missing any prominent roles or appearances? I feel like Cass hasn't "stuck" fully; she's stuck well enough so that she still gets published a little bit, but that's all. I guess that's kind of a win, but not what I would call successful. Shame too, Cass was one of the most interesting characters DC churned out in the 00's.
    H She made it into a live action big budget Hollywood film

  2. #62
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Eh, maybe Cass wasn't the best of examples, but my point still came across right?

    Regarding Cass......in the last ten-ish years, how much play has she gotten? Far as I know, she was missing for years after the New52 started, showed up in that weekly Batman title, then was limited to rare and occasional guest appearances until Tynion's 'Tec, then spent several more months (maybe a whole year?) waiting for Outsiders to hit. Am I missing any prominent roles or appearances? I feel like Cass hasn't "stuck" fully; she's stuck well enough so that she still gets published a little bit, but that's all. I guess that's kind of a win, but not what I would call successful. Shame too, Cass was one of the most interesting characters DC churned out in the 00's.
    I think I get what you were going for but, again, I don't think Cass is a good example, at least on the comics side.

    I mean, I'd say Cass was successful enough to make Batgirl a viable solo series and have it last as long as it did and stay a staple of the Batfamily to the extent where there was enough demand to bring her back after the reboot and all the ill will towards her character from editorial. She may not be as prominent as she was during the 90's but I'd say she's still significant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    H She made it into a live action big budget Hollywood film
    Well, in name only.

  3. #63
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    I would have used her showing up in the Young Justice cartoon over the Harley movie.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
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  4. #64
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    H She made it into a live action big budget Hollywood film
    No she didn't. Her name made it, but her character was nowhere in sight. Just someone named Cassandra Cain

  5. #65
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    I would have used her showing up in the Young Justice cartoon over the Harley movie.
    She was basically a cameo in one episode.

  6. #66
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    Harley got Worfed this week in a bit of especially un-earned writing. It's not to say the story's over or won't pull out some redemption or anything like that, plus it was spoiled in promo art and previews months ago, but it did finally occur! Worfed to the extreme! It's like New 52 Joker's Daughter all over again! All of this has happened before and will happen again.

    I guess Punchline just wanted it more and a passable rationale for how she might get the upper hand in a physical altercation felt like too much work.

    I'm not hating on Tynion's Joker War story at all, I just want to be consistent with calling out writers for telling stories where they go all in on shocking or cool moments without any sort of internal consistency or leg work. This is also the second character that's had their throat slit in this arc and will be fine, perfectly fine, so we're looking at redundancy as well. Plus Batman is stabbed and Catwoman is ... shot apparently? These characters feel like voodoo dolls and pin cushions, not humans.

    Don't be a Tom King! Explain how things happen and how they work in context. I think there's 50 ways to sell Punchline getting the upper hand on Harley. It's still a text-book Worfing but you can still sell the idea. Just do the math and then show the work. We read detective fantasy fiction. We like tedious details.
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  7. #67
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    H She made it into a live action big budget Hollywood film
    Ha! No she didn't. Some brand new character we've never seen before stole Cass' name.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think I get what you were going for but, again, I don't think Cass is a good example, at least on the comics side.
    Okay, bad example then. Maybe I should've used Bluebird instead?

    Point stands though; most new characters don't last. Punchline might, but the odds don't seem to be in her favor.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

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  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    She was basically a cameo in one episode.
    I just meant I think they handled her character in a more accurate manner. If they do another season they should do more with her.
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  9. #69
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Ha! No she didn't. Some brand new character we've never seen before stole Cass' name.



    Okay, bad example then. Maybe I should've used Bluebird instead?

    Point stands though; most new characters don't last. Punchline might, but the odds don't seem to be in her favor.
    I think Bluebird and Joker's Daughter are good examples.

  10. #70
    Incredible Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I'm sure DC wants the "Joker's girlfriend" niche filled, and you're right it's a role that's been carved out enough for DC to want someone in that position, but that doesn't mean Punchline is going to prove popular enough to hold it.
    […]
    In fact I wrote: «…; if Tynion will play well his cards.»

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'm...not sure if this is a good thing.

    (I mean, Harley was a Joker fangirl, but it was kind of amusing how deluded she was about it).
    I'm not a fan of characters being used as mouthpieces for disgruntled creators(Superboy Prime) or a specific fanbase(what Punchline seems to be). Harley was a delusional fangirl and Punchline is shaping up to be a fanatical fangirl, 100% committed to the Joker's philosophy.

  12. #72
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    I don't understand the hype surrounding the character. Being evil is not being edgy in how you kill people. Boasting about killing homeless people is just low, not something that a villain should be proud of doing. How does a college student get away from the murder of a school dean anyway? Batman used to be telling stories of investigating mysteries surrounding a murder.
    Last edited by prepmaster; 08-01-2020 at 12:30 AM.

  13. #73
    Ultimate Member AtheistInRed's Avatar
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    Speaking of which, I'm actually looking forward to this Punchline one-shot: https://twitter.com/thedcnation/stat...56140183638016
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  14. #74
    I am BLACK GUY dreyga2000's Avatar
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    I'm pumped for the one-shot. I'm kinda disappointed it's not a mini series but then again some compressed storytelling will probably result in a better story being told

  15. #75
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtheistInRed View Post
    Speaking of which, I'm actually looking forward to this Punchline one-shot: https://twitter.com/thedcnation/stat...56140183638016
    Her pre-Punchline self actually looks cuter.

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