Do you think Cassandra Nova should be forgiven since she's a mutant?

[BroHomo]

Replace Stark with Red Skull, he secretly made Stark build them under mind control - if you want to blame people for Sentinels blame the right ones. Shaw didn't have to be responsible for Genosha to be responsible for genocide against mutants, he was involved in Project: Wide Awake. Why is genocide against mutants bad when humans do it but not when mutants do it? This hypocrisy dilutes the tragedy in mutant life, so it's not about the deaths its about whether the person doing it is liked. Especially when the act is genocide is terrible, no matter who does it or for what reasons. So if this Xavier had given a pass to Nova it'd all be water under the bridge.

.

Oh so Red Skull was influencing Stark when he built the O*N*E* Sentinels?
No?
Okay then.
Bruh you literally are blaming everyone who's even said Sentinels for Genocide against Mutants, but hard ignore the hard evidence of the Pretenders crimes. Oooookay

Did you read Avengers: Disassembled? They weren't knowingly doing anything to make Wanda do that, and you left off Xavier, who didn't exactly try his hardest to heal Wanda in therapy so if you want to blame them may as well throw him in there. And Magneto. And Quicksilver. And the Avengers and X-men who tried to kill her before she said those words. And Doom, who was revealed to be responsible for everything. .

Damn sooooo everyone BUT the Prentender is too blame. lol

A "nightmare given form" could just as accuracy describe Sabretooth, Apocalypse, and Sinister and they all got pardons. Sinister wasn't even a mutant..

lol Buuuut unlike the people mentioned above Nova was never a mutant, was never a person, she doesnt have free will, She is literally the opposite of everything Xavier is. That is all shes going to be.

Apocalypse tried to destroy humanity in 2006 with his United Nations ultimatum. It was from the "Blood of Apocalypse" storyline. Of course, even if he did only do that thousands of years ago didn't mean he should be brushed off so casually, it's not like he regrets these activities. Humans are ants to Magneto, they're microbes to Apocalypse.

All of them have continuously spent their long lives killing people, mutant and human alike, on the small and large scale - including in the present. They're psychopaths who simply view people as objects to torment, manipulate and discard.

We're not talking about model citizens here, they're the worst of the worst. Sabretooth is a small timer in that list.

and Despite all the killling their body count is still less than the Pretenders, who people are cool with being an Avenger. Regardless of that those crimes were committed when they were supervillians and still didnt amount to much in the future where Humanity wipes out mutants. Moira has multiple lifetimes of knowledge and they are all the same Humans are the quinstissial threat to not just mutants but to themselves. In order to ensure the future of all life on Earth They would need to do something different....Have you been reading Hickman's Xmen?

Krakoa probably don't want Nova sniffing around since she'd be able to unravel their conspiracy within days, and she'd be able to attache herself to those who don't think highly of Krakoa like Mystique. Nudge Nightcrawler, Cyclops, Excalibur and Jean Grey along and she'd create a civil war on Onslaught Jr., I mean, Xavier's doorstep.

Onslaught himself would probably be invited, he was intent on mutant domination, Magneto style, before he absorbed Nate Grey's memories of Age of Apocalypse
.

Soooo you're making arguments against Nova being on KraKoa? Why would Xavier be called Onslaught Jr if He himself was Onslaught??

Don't erase Sinister from Krakoa to win an argument, we wouldn't be having this discussion if the X-men didn't bring Sinister in, which means any villain who can replicate being a mutant is fair game if they're found useful..

Well they'd have to renounce their villainy but since all the mutant villains have done that and are granted amnesty on KraKoa its a moot point.

All Nova needs to do is copy any nearby mutant's x-gene and she's as much a mutant as he is. That psychopath has as much respect for mutants as she does.

technically shed be a mutate. Sinister was cloned with the X-Gene already in his DNA. You reeeeeeally need to go back and reread pretty much all of Sinisters appearances in the past if you think that's the case :/

[ExodusCloak]

Shouldn’t mutants be fairly pro-“the next stage in evolution”?

Shes also an apex predator. So they will be as happy as any prey would be to see the animal that is about to eat it.

At present nanotech functions as empathy. I don't believe her mind was tampered with telepathically. Trinity programmed the nanobots to function as her missing empathy

[houndsofluv]

Being morally grey really doesn’t have anything to do with being hypocritical.

Well, not inherently.

maybe not inherently but its laid out in the text. Moira fears mutants will experience the obsoletion due to evolutionary advancement . We're left to make of it what we will as the plot unfolds.

Oh, everyone think they do the right thing, even the villains. They don't consider themselves as 'gray'.

How many times Magneto justified the violence he perpetrated by arguments about what is wrong and what is right. And, of course, he considered himself as right.

You want Sinister to be good, he will be good… according to his definition of good.
My definition of right and wrong doesn't change according to a comic author, though…

Neither does mine dude. I just see a lot of discussions bogged down by varying degrees of outrage, irritation, joy and nonchalance over who is playing "villain" and who is playing "hero", or rather who should be playing villain or hero, and I'm weary lol. cant there be more to a story ?

[Pav]

Well, they left reformation as a possibility twice now. First when Morrison had her imprisoned in Stuff for rehabilitation as Ernst (which subsequent writers flubbed hard), and more recently when (exasperated sigh) Jean dosed her with empathy. But it's not really clear whether Cassandra is a mutant, as a genetic clone of Xavier she should have an active X-gene, but she is usually classified as a mummudrai.

It's a shame that later writers weren't really picking up what Morrison had put down. That being said, I'm always hopeful that messes can be cleaned up by future writers who paid greater attention to details.

There's also her possible future in "Here Comes Tomorrow" to consider, when she had already reformed and become part of the X-Men.

However, she's too excellent a villain to lose completely. I definitely don't mind hints of a turn to the good in the future, but I'd prefer she stay mostly villainous in there here and now.

-Pav, who wonders what is the best "fix" for Cassie/Stuff/Ernst...

[coveredinbees]

Lol no! She killed more than Scarlet Witch and would do it agin! They accepted Sinister because he helps them clone themselves, not because he's a mutant. That Sinister clone worked with them because he's a mutant. Magneto and Xavier went to him without knowing that.

[houndsofluv]

-Pav, who wonders what is the best "fix" for Cassie/Stuff/Ernst...

come to think of it Ernst was included in Hickman's humongous "roster" right ? This is absolutely baseless but I would die if he had something in store . Otherwise just a very left-field inclusion I guess lol

[danielsan52]

She should be a lobotomized servant to that blue kid she killed.

Or used as a host for Krakoa to feed.

[Sutekh]

come to think of it Ernst was included in Hickman's humongous "roster" right ? This is absolutely baseless but I would die if he had something in store . Otherwise just a very left-field inclusion I guess lol

I like Ernst and kind of wish she'd just continue as her own person, and not some Cassadra-waiting-to-happen.

As for her squiffily-defined super-strength and progeria, I'd tie them together, and say that she's got all the physical strength of a girl her size *across her entire lifespan.* She's young and old, all at once. Sadly she doesn't get future knowledge out of it, but she can push or lift or punch with the force of thousands of herself, all pushing/lifting/punching in unison. (She's a one-person 'Collective Man!') And it would be potential strength, so it doesn't matter if she gets hit by a bus and dies tomorrow, she still has seventy-plus years worth of strength to tap into until then.

[Steel Inquisitor]

.
Oh so Red Skull was influencing Stark when he built the O*N*E* Sentinels?
No?
Okay then.
Bruh you literally are blaming everyone who's even said Sentinels for Genocide against Mutants, but hard ignore the hard evidence of the Pretenders crimes. Oooookay

O*N*E wasn't a group that weren't all anti-mutant bigots, there are numerous occasions where they're not harming anyone and protecting mutants. It was a complicated relationship between the X-men and the America government at that stage.
Stop gaslighting.

Damn sooooo everyone BUT the Prentender is too blame. lol

A deflection and being gaslit, again.

lol Buuuut unlike the people mentioned above Nova was never a mutant, was never a person, she doesnt have free will, She is literally the opposite of everything Xavier is. That is all shes going to be.

Neither is Sinister. However, what she can do is copy DNA - that's how she got control of the Wild Sentinels by copying Trask's.

and Despite all the killling their body count is still less than the Pretenders, who people are cool with being an Avenger. Regardless of that those crimes were committed when they were supervillians and still didnt amount to much in the future where Humanity wipes out mutants.

This is interesting, dismissing long careers of top level super-villains in the X-line over a super-hero who was pushed over the edge at a moment of weakness and who regrets her crimes. Over something Sinister did years ago with the High Evolutionary, but this isn't about M-Day this is about tearing down the Avengers.

We don't know their bodycounts because nobody's keeping score and krkaoa certainly isn't interested in doing that. And not lack of trying, Selene would have killed millions and Apocalypse billions if he succeeded. Just because they didn't succeed occasionally means they were harmless or they haven't got a large bodycount. Of course, this only matters if their actions are viewed as negative, so what did you think of their super-villain careers before Krkaoa? Did you side with their ideology or the X-men's?

Moira has multiple lifetimes of knowledge and they are all the same Humans are the quinstissial threat to not just mutants but to themselves. In order to ensure the future of all life on Earth They would need to do something different....Have you been reading Hickman's Xmen?

Have you read any X-men comics before Hickman?

Soooo you're making arguments against Nova being on KraKoa? Why would Xavier be called Onslaught Jr if He himself was Onslaught??

I could make argument like that for every super-villain on the Quiet Council. Xavier's once again treading the line of going dark, it's a callback to Onslaught. Xavier's back in the mutant supremacist ideology business.

Well they'd have to renounce their villainy but since all the mutant villains have done that and are granted amnesty on KraKoa its a moot point.

That's the problem, they're not renouncing anything - justice wasn't served for their crimes against mutants, humans, Eternals and more. Selene is currently being a super-villain in Captain America, Apocalypse is currently manipulating and abusing Excalibur. All they did was become citizens of Krakoa, something which could easily be asked of Nova. It's not like the numerous super-villains on Krakoa were that friendly to the X-men before Krakoa. It makes no sense for all of them to smoothly accept Krakoa to quickly, there should be so much more in-fighting than what we're seeing. If they are being manipulated by telepathy or another force they might not want Nova precisely because she'd be able to sniff it out not because she wouldn't be a good ally to have.

technically shed be a mutate. Sinister was cloned with the X-Gene already in his DNA. You reeeeeeally need to go back and reread pretty much all of Sinisters appearances in the past if you think that's the case :/

Sinister himself is a mutate, his original form wasn't being a mutant he was augmented by Apocalypse - his original species is human. A clone injecting an x-geen into itself won't change that fact. It's about as genuine as Nova being a member of the Trask family after she copied his DNA.

[Hulkout42]

Well...they gave Sinister and Apocalypse a pass so...yes?

[CoCoBandz]

Well...they gave Sinister and Apocalypse a pass so...yes?

Cassandra Nova isn't a mutant so...no?

[Hulkout42]

Cassandra Nova isn't a mutant so...no?

Neither is Sinister, but since he can graft a X-gene onto himself from a fallen X-man than I guess that's all anyone needs then, so if Cassandra Nova does the same and she is just a big a monster than both he and Apocalypse are than I can only guess that she gets a pass as well.

[Glio]

It never ceases to amaze me when people can tell what a being is without studying her/him/it, just like that.
Who said what she is?
How many beings like Cassandra exist? And, still, she/it has a taxonomy just for her/it.

The Shi'ar say it, a civilization that has had encounters with Mummudrai for thousands of years.

The only thing that differentiates Cassandra Nova from most Mummudrai is that since Xavier has such powerful psychic potential, Cassandra Nova is equivalently more powerful than the rest. https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Mummudrai

Cassandra Nova can't even be compared to Sinister just because she gets an X-gene. Cassandra Nova is more akin to Onslaught or Shadow King.

[SerCo]

No she's not a mutant. And Sinister is a faux mutant, he is only there because that's what the plot needed.

[Nazrel]

We don't know their bodycounts because nobody's keeping score and krkaoa certainly isn't interested in doing that. And not lack of trying, Selene would have killed millions and Apocalypse billions if he succeeded. Just because they didn't succeed occasionally means they were harmless or they haven't got a large bodycount. Of course, this only matters if their actions are viewed as negative, so what did you think of their super-villain careers before Krkaoa? Did you side with their ideology or the X-men's?

Selene actually tried to kill the entire world, mutants first, devouring their souls; resurrecting Genosha for that explicit purpose. You're understating the threat she poses... to Krakoa for that matter. (So we're clear I'm not disagreeing with you.)