Who exactly was MJ's stalker? (ASM & PPSM 1999-2001)

[federicodettofred]

Hello guys,
I wanted to ask this question for a long time and this seems to be the perfect place. I'm a huge SM fan, but some storylines never seemed to make sense to me. Let's go with this.
From 1999 to 2001 Howard Mackie started to introduce a mysterious character who stalked Mary Jane with threatening phone calls, before going crazy and bombing places to terrify her completely. If we ignore the fact that she doesn't tell Peter (and it's already a huge plot hole), there are other things that don't add up. The biggest one can be seen in PETER PARKER SPIDER-MAN 12 VOL.2 when MJ is trapped inside a taxi with the stalker who reveals to have a bomb inside the car. She easily escapes (how?) and he blows himself up. It should end here, right? He's dead, right? No, because he returns in AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 29 VOL.2 when it is revealed he faked MJ's plane crash and he is keeping her locked up. He confesses to be a telepathic mutant who was linked somehow (yeah, how? again) to Peter and he became obsessed with his life. But how on Earth did he survive the explosion? The whole story seems a little off. Did someone understand something more?

[Rob London]

I think the thing to understand here is that Howard Mackie for whatever reason didn't really think the whole thing through, set up several false clues, and then hastily wrapped things up when he left the book.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

The entire story was mandated by EIC Bob Harras over Howard Mackie's objections.

The point was never to tell any real mystery story. It was to get Mary Jane out of the books. Harras asked them to kill off Mary Jane but Mackie decided to do it in a way that was ambiguous so that her death could be undone without any retcon (hence the classic never found a body mechanism).

The mystery stalker was just some rando who dropped in and out of the story, and was never intended to be referred to again. That's why after MJ returned, the entire story and her time as captive was never mentioned or addressed in any follow-up story.

[Alan2099]

I'm just going to assume it was F.A.C.A.D.E.

[ngroove]

I remember the John Byrne Volume 2 times, regretfully. Picked up and bought every single issue, from issue 3, to issue 14.

Then, still a bright-eyed young gullible, having to accept that Sandman became a villain again, endured through the Spider-Women, viewed Captain Power as "Hey, a Doctor Octopus appearance!", and had hopes up that that that year's Sinister Six story was the big event of 1999, only to witness Sandman's leadership quickly chumping over an extremely scrawny Venom. And don't get me started on interchangeable with Sergei Kravinoff Aloysha Kraven, and white and blue "Chapter One" costumed Electro!

And then, that issue. Spidey having to catch up and stop a caucasian Rocket Racer. Mary Jane grabbing a plane, to momentarily clear her head from Peter lying to her that he's retired the Spidey threads. Lollipop sucking creepo. Boom. The End.

Aside from the following issue that had Spider-Women again, and a couple later issues that had Venom, one of them with awesome buffed up Erik Larsen drawn Venom again, that was it for me on new Spider-Issues for a while, until issue 50.

[Displaying_Model_Behaviour]

I honestly think that I've blotted most of this period out of my mind. The couple of years following the clone saga I thought were really strong with Norman in the Lex Luthor style protagonist role but after we hit the re-launch and the John Bryan stuff it all went horribly downhill in the late 99 / early 2000's until JMS was finally able to save the character and get us back on track.

[Pav]

I remember the John Byrne Volume 2 times, regretfully. Picked up and bought every single issue, from issue 3, to issue 14.

Then, still a bright-eyed young gullible, having to accept that Sandman became a villain again, endured through the Spider-Women, viewed Captain Power as "Hey, a Doctor Octopus appearance!", and had hopes up that that that year's Sinister Six story was the big event of 1999, only to witness Sandman's leadership quickly chumping over an extremely scrawny Venom. And don't get me started on interchangeable with Sergei Kravinoff Aloysha Kraven, and white and blue "Chapter One" costumed Electro!

And then, that issue. Spidey having to catch up and stop a caucasian Rocket Racer. Mary Jane grabbing a plane, to momentarily clear her head from Peter lying to her that he's retired the Spidey threads. Lollipop sucking creepo. Boom. The End.

Aside from the following issue that had Spider-Women again, and a couple later issues that had Venom, one of them with awesome buffed up Erik Larsen drawn Venom again, that was it for me on new Spider-Issues for a while, until issue 50.

This was the period in which I quit reading comics, mostly because I was so frustrated with the direction of the post-relaunch Spidey comics -- and for many of the reasons you already listed.

The portrayal of both Peter and MJ was horrible, especially after watching their marriage strengthen after the deaths of Ben Reilly and Baby May.

You can argue that those post-CS stories were forgettable, but at least they were enjoyable and not the mean-spirited schlock we got from John Byrne.

Bad Spidey comics + cancellation of Slingers = Pav stopped reading comics until regaining interest thanks to PAD's Madrox miniseries and vol. 2 of Runaways, which featured Ricochet.

-Pav, who also felt like the Spider-Girl title had lost a little something by that point as well...

[federicodettofred]

Yeah, I guessed it had to do with Marvel's hate for Peter's marriage. But still, the story makes no sense in the last part: the stalker is not Wolverine, so how did he survive an explosion coming from the seat next to him?

[federicodettofred]

I honestly think that I've blotted most of this period out of my mind. The couple of years following the clone saga I thought were really strong with Norman in the Lex Luthor style protagonist role but after we hit the re-launch and the John Bryan stuff it all went horribly downhill in the late 99 / early 2000's until JMS was finally able to save the character and get us back on track.

I actually don't get totally why people love the JMS saga so much. The whole Spider-Totems was unnecessary and don't get me started with things like Sins Past and OMD

[Spidey_62]

I actually don't get totally why people love the JMS saga so much. The whole Spider-Totems was unnecessary and don't get me started with things like Sins Past and OMD

I think people too often leave out the contributions of people like Paul Jenkins/ Mark Buckingham, and Bendis/Bagley had coming onto Spider-Man months before JMS and breathing new life to the character. It wasn't just JMS doing Amazing that caught people's attention- Ultimate and PPSM were super fresh as well bringing Spidey books out of the hole creatively but were mostly doing less crazy concept things like the spider-totems.

Even still, I think the totem concept works really well earlier on in the run when it's less of a matter of fact and just presented as an alternative explanation. Coming Home is one of my favorite stories, I think pretty much most of the stuff with JRJR on art was great but then you get to Sins Past and you literally enter another part of the run where editorial mandates start to take over the direction and it just becomes a mess if you ask me.

[TheCape]

I think people too often leave out the contributions of people like Paul Jenkins/ Mark Buckingham, and Bendis/Bagley had coming onto Spider-Man months before JMS and breathing new life to the character. It wasn't just JMS doing Amazing that caught people's attention- Ultimate and PPSM were super fresh as well bringing Spidey books out of the hole creatively but were mostly doing less crazy concept things like the spider-totems.

Even still, I think the totem concept works really well earlier on in the run when it's less of a matter of fact and just presented as an alternative explanation. Coming Home is one of my favorite stories, I think pretty much most of the stuff with JRJR on art was great but then you get to Sins Past and you literally enter another part of the run where editorial mandates start to take over the direction and it just becomes a mess if you ask me.

Jenkins? yes. But Ultimate Spider-Man? definetly not, a lot of people praise that series, when it came out, some had even called the best modern Spider-Man.

In my opinion the 3 runs are good for what they are but i have my problems with all of then.

[Spidey_62]

Jenkins? yes. But Ultimate Spider-Man? definetly not, a lot of people praise that series, when it came out, some had even called the best modern Spider-Man.

In my opinion the 3 runs are good for what they are but i have my problems with all of then.

I mean regardless how you feel about them they all sparked new interest, accessibility, and critical acclaim for the character's comics than there had been for years. Not just JMS coming on ASM is what I'm trying to say.

[Triniking1234]

Yeah, I guessed it had to do with Marvel's hate for Peter's marriage. But still, the story makes no sense in the last part: the stalker is not Wolverine, so how did he survive an explosion coming from the seat next to him?

Well considering they never expanded the abilities and resources of the stalker character, they could've had access to LMDs or be a super-human with multiple bodies like Multiple Man.

[jebsib]

Recall that after a solid year (publication time) of being Stalker-kidnapped, MJ was freed, instantly seemed normal and immediately broke up with Peter.

After 13 years of marriage. After all they went through (Kraven's Last Hunt, Clone Saga, etc)

Yes, I know it was JMS-mandated, but WTH?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Recall that after a solid year (publication time) of being Stalker-kidnapped, MJ was freed, instantly seemed normal and immediately broke up with Peter.

After 13 years of marriage. After all they went through (Kraven's Last Hunt, Clone Saga, etc)

Yes, I know it was JMS-mandated, but WTH?

Was it JMS-mandated? I remember Howard Mackie saying that he did it per Marvel editorial's request. JMS said in an interview that when he came on ASM he had a free hand to do what he wished with the marriage, and I guess Marvel wanted to give him a free hand to do as he wished, so that meant moving MJ out of the books but still alive for him to do as he wished. And obviously JMS wanted to milk mileage out of their reunion for maximum emotional impact.

In either case, whoever they did it and whatever their intentions, it does make some amount of sense. Obviously nobody wanted to deal with the fallout of MJ's kidnapping/stalking and the fact that she was locked in a room for several months. Nobody wanted to actually treat this incident as canon, or rather canon-consequential. That's why the bad guy was some rando mutant rather than some notable villain. If it had been a famous villain it would have become part of Spider-Man's history, instead it's something that's there which can be safely ignored. Had JMS started right away with MJ and Peter together, he would have to address that.

Moving her out allowed JMS to establish that relationship anew without actually dealing with the Clone Saga and Post-Clone Saga stuff which is obviously both what he wanted and what editorial wanted. In the entire time JMS wrote ASM he didn't refer once to any story element from the period directly preceding him. In a character sense, you can explain that as a result of Mary Jane suffering PTSD and trying to find some refuge, so she found focusing on her career as a way to distance herself from those emotions. That was kind of alluded to in JMS' run with her, especially in the famous silent issue he did which was the first issue in his run where she featured.