Joker war

[Badou]

Honestly having two Robins would be a really fun thing to see.

If I was a Damian fan I'd hate it, but I guess Tim fans would be happy. So maybe it is a wash. Seems DC is just giving up on trying to move him on from Robin after a decade of failing.

Connection between books probably will be handled better. They have big problems with books now, because they changed lots of plans, Tynion's run wasn't supposed to be that big with lots of plans for next year, it just was supposed to lead to Ridley's scrapped run.
Another thing is that all this may not have a very good effect on the independence of other titles, this is really upsetting.

I just don't think DC understand the difference between connecting the books more and just having the books tie into whatever Batman story is happening. If Joker War is anything to go on I think it will be more like what the New 52 was with Snyder's Batman story arcs. Like that Death of the Family story which was awful for the satellite books. Using them to prop up the main Batman story. I'd rather the books remain independent than be used as supporting books for the Batman title. It just sucks if you are reading a Batgirl or Nightwing book and the character you are reading the book for just gets embarrassed for a story they aren't even the main character of, and you have to read another book (Batman) to get a conclusion for it. It just destroys any sort of momentum their solo books try to build.

But maybe I am wrong and it will be better, but I need to see it first I guess before I believe it.

[DragonPiece]

If I was a Damian fan I'd hate it, but I guess Tim fans would be happy. So maybe it is a wash. Seems DC is just giving up on trying to move him on from Robin after a decade of failing.



I just don't think DC understand the difference between connecting the books more and just having the books tie into whatever Batman story is happening. If Joker War is anything to go on I think it will be more like what the New 52 was with Snyder's Batman story arcs. Like that Death of the Family story which was awful for the satellite books. Using them to prop up the main Batman story. I'd rather the books remain independent than be used as supporting books for the Batman title. It just sucks if you are reading a Batgirl or Nightwing book and the character you are reading the book for just gets embarrassed for a story they aren't even the main character of, and you have to read another book (Batman) to get a conclusion for it. It just destroys any sort of momentum their solo books try to build.

But maybe I am wrong and it will be better, but I need to see it first I guess before I believe it.

I wouldn't base the future on what joker was like, because clearly there was a lot of editorial changes happening behind the scenes since the event was being planned. Like someone else said, Joker War was originally supposed to be the final batman arc before 5G started and this revamped version we are reading likely was a bit rushed in terms of planning.

I'm honestly pretty hopeful, since next year DC should have all of the editorial switchse under control and Tynion knows he's a ongoing writer now compared to when he started and he was just writing as a fill in writer.

[Frontier]

I just don't think DC understand the difference between connecting the books more and just having the books tie into whatever Batman story is happening. If Joker War is anything to go on I think it will be more like what the New 52 was with Snyder's Batman story arcs. Like that Death of the Family story which was awful for the satellite books. Using them to prop up the main Batman story. I'd rather the books remain independent than be used as supporting books for the Batman title. It just sucks if you are reading a Batgirl or Nightwing book and the character you are reading the book for just gets embarrassed for a story they aren't even the main character of, and you have to read another book (Batman) to get a conclusion for it. It just destroys any sort of momentum their solo books try to build.

But maybe I am wrong and it will be better, but I need to see it first I guess before I believe it.

My takeaway is the new status quo will impact all the books to some extent and (hopefully) we'll see the family interacting more.

But I'm just tired of the Batfamily feeling like a family in-name-only because the characters barely reference or really interact with each other much aside from the occasional guest spot.

[Godlike13]

Ehh, kind of the same stuff they always say when marketing a new status quo. The family doesn't need to connect more, its the quality of their connections that needs work. But reading between lines they have driven the satellite books into the ground sales wise, using them as work fodder for tired and stale creators that don't draw or generate much of anything anymore, so they are now going to try and inject more Batman into them to get them out of the bottom of the charts. Im more interested in what their creator pool is going to look like going forward cause as it is its pathetic. With names like Lobdell and Jurgens writing almost half their line, and having to fall back on resident recurring names like Tynion and Tomasi. While running off the newer names.

[Frontier]

Ehh, kind of the same stuff they always say when marketing a new status quo. The family doesn't need to connect more, its the quality of their connections that needs work. But reading between lines they have driven the satellite books into the ground sales wise, using them as work fodder for tired and stale creators that don't draw or generate much of anything anymore, so they are now going to try and inject more Batman into them to get them out of the bottom of the charts. Im more interested in what their creator pool is going to look like going forward cause as it is its pathetic. With names like Lobdell and Jurgens writing almost half their line, and having to fall back on resident recurring names like Tynion and Tomasi. While running off the newer names.

I feel like part of the lack of quality is because writers don't spend the time actually showing and developing those connections.

[Bat-Meal]

I feel like part of the lack of quality is because writers don't spend the time actually showing and developing those connections.

A Bat-Family book would be nice. Not sure how it would work exactly, but it would be nice. Maybe something like the Batman Eternal run.
Have several smaller arcs of seeing what the various members are up to, but not clump everyone together in one huge team.
I did enjoy the Tynion Tec run of the Gotham Knights: but the problem was IMO they were over-powered which made their enemies have to be bigger and bigger threats.

[Godlike13]

I feel like part of the lack of quality is because writers don't spend the time actually showing and developing those connections.

There have plenty of Bat Family interactions. We had full series like the Eternals and Tynion's Tec, then there are the annual events and specials like Robin War and Alfred RIP, and finally there are routine appearances in each others books. From Red Hood in Teen Titans, Batgirl in Nightwing, to the the Bat family assemble moments in Batman, ect, ect. And this is all after Death of the Family.

Them trying to say that it's never quite been the same is actually quite concerning, cause its just not true. They just repeated the cycle of having them fallout and then reunite, but this time there hasn't even been a big fall out. They just got lazy and over relied on out of date creators and buried them under bad ideas, sinking all their books not Batman and making look as if there has been a fallout. But really they just let them fall to the way side as they were preparing for something else. Though i guess its easier to try and claim that "its never been the same" then just come out and say "in actuality we have done a such poor job recently with these characters that they are now almost unsellable. It wasn't going to matter as they weren't going to matter with what were were planning to do, but now that that is belly up. Uh-oh. So now we need to do even more Batman crossovers and events to try inflate their poor numbers". This is pretty much what they tried to do with Batwoman during Rebirth. Injecting more Batman in an attempt make her more marketable. This is also how Snyder worked during his run with his arcs eventually leading to family events to tie-in to.

[Bat-Meal]

They just got lazy and over relied on out of date creators, and sinking all their books not Batman. Though guess its easier to try and claim that "its never been the same" then just come out and say "in actuality we have done a such poor job recently with these characters that they are now almost unsellable, so we need to do even more Batman crossovers and events to try inflate their numbers more". This is pretty much what they tried to do with Batwoman with Rebirth. Injecting more Batman in an attempt make her more marketable.

Nah, Bruce wasn't in Batwoman's Rebirth solo all that much. The book didn't last IMO because it was set on the island of Bore-yawn-ah, with bland villains, and none of Kate's original support cast. When Alice, and Bruce, finally did turn-up they pretty much repeated the same story beats of her last solo: Kate needs to rescue Alice, Kate and Bruce have a fight but ultimately come to a compromise.

[Godlike13]

Nah, Bruce wasn't in Batwoman's Rebirth solo all that much. The book didn't last IMO because it was set on the island of Bore-yawn-ah, with bland villains, and none of Kate's original support cast. When Alice, and Bruce, finally did turn-up they pretty much repeated the same story beats of her last solo: Kate needs to rescue Alice, Kate and Bruce have a fight but ultimately come to a compromise.

Batwoman's Rebirth solo was a direct spin off to the Tec run. They pretty much gutted and warped her previous mythos and made her more Batman "connected". I don't mean there was literally more Bruce in her solo, i mean they surrounded her and her world with more Batman familiar things to better try sell her as a Batman character. Staring with 'Tec leading into her dud of a solo.

[Bat-Meal]

Batwoman's Rebirth solo was a direct spin off to the Tec run. They pretty much gutting her previous mythos so they could make her more Batman "connected".

Yeah, well, they didn't fully commit IMO because the Rebirth solo had a very different feel and style to the Tec run. As in one was fun, and the other was super-dull IMO. Didn't help that the timelines between the two didn't match-up clearly. And what was with the stupid jet-pack thing? That thing came out of nowhere and was just stupid IMO, plus if she had it why'd she only use it on one occasion and never again?

Plus, between the first and second solo, and the Tec run - Batman and Batwoman's relationship consists of bickering, then being friends again, then bickering. Though I suppose that's true of much of the Bat-Family.

[Frontier]

Batwoman's Rebirth solo was a direct spin off to the Tec run. They pretty much gutted and warped her previous mythos and made her more Batman "connected". I don't mean there was literally more Bruce in her solo, i mean they surrounded her and her world with more Batman familiar things to better try sell her as a Batman character. Staring with 'Tec leading into her dud of a solo.

Her solo didn't really feel very Batman-y, even though she had an Alfred in Julia. It still felt like a Kate Kane story.

There have plenty of Bat Family interactions. We had full series like the Eternals and Tynion's Tec, then there are the annual events and specials like Robin War and Alfred RIP, and finally there are routine appearances in each others books. From Red Hood in Teen Titans, Batgirl in Nightwing, to the the Bat family assemble moments in Batman, ect, ect. And this is all after Death of the Family.

Them trying to say that it's never quite been the same is actually quite concerning, cause its just not true. They just repeated the cycle of having them fallout and then reunite, but this time there hasn't even been a big fall out. They just got lazy and over relied on out of date creators and buried them under bad ideas, sinking all their books not Batman and making look as if there has been a fallout. But really they just let them fall to the way side as they were preparing for something else. Though i guess its easier to try and claim that "its never been the same" then just come out and say "in actuality we have done a such poor job recently with these characters that they are now almost unsellable. It wasn't going to matter as they weren't going to matter with what were were planning to do, but now that that is belly up. Uh-oh. So now we need to do even more Batman crossovers and events to try inflate their poor numbers". This is pretty much what they tried to do with Batwoman during Rebirth. Injecting more Batman in an attempt make her more marketable. This is also how Snyder worked during his run with his arcs eventually leading to family events to tie-in to.

I wouldn't call the Eternals the high point of Batfamily interaction, and Tynion's 'Tec is part of the problem because the team felt so isolated from the rest of the Batfamily.

And then we get the culmination of this problem in those "Batfamily assemble" moments which end up being just generic group events that we're supposed to buy into even though the books hardly ever show them as a family or building up their relationships/dynamic aside from these moments. I agree that this is a problem that stems from Snyder's era.

Aside from Babs in Nightwing, which is to be expected, appearances feel more "rare" than routine.

[Light of Justice]

Tynion making Bruce and Tim a thing again?

Worryingly, as far as we have there's no mention of Tim on Tynion's Batman. For me he looks like to push Clownhunter on Batman's side more than Tim.

[Morgoth]

Worryingly, as far as we have there's no mention of Tim on Tynion's Batman. For me he looks like to push Clownhunter on Batman's side more than Tim.

Maybe Tim will join him next year, YJ still goes till November anyway. Maybe they just don't want to put him on active role in Batman titles before YJ ending.
However it will be funny, if after all those words about being Tim's fan, Tynion will focus on his new character, while Damian will get mantle back.

[Konja7]

Worryingly, as far as we have there's no mention of Tim on Tynion's Batman. For me he looks like to push Clownhunter on Batman's side more than Tim.

That's my impression too.

Tynion may be a big fan of Tim, but he seems more interested to promote his own creation (Clownhunter).

[Light of Justice]

If I was a Damian fan I'd hate it, but I guess Tim fans would be happy. So maybe it is a wash. Seems DC is just giving up on trying to move him on from Robin after a decade of failing.

Depends. I don't mind having two Robins, just like I don't mind having two Superboys. But if they put unnecessary drama like "fight between two Robins" which Damian almost certainly will be on problematic side, then I prefer Damian to get out from Robin and Batman book for a while.