Joker war

[Jman27]

I think there is a way for Batman to keep his code and be rid of the Joker! Ask Superman to put the Joker in the Phantom Zone!

Isn’t Batman too prideful for that my city my rules? Like I heard during no mans land he deny Superman help twice

[the nomad]

Honestly after this Joker War, I'm kinda ready for someone to just do him in and see what new psycho is brought forth bc, once the Joker was 'the villian' now to me he's just ehhh.

[RachelGrey]

Honestly after this Joker War, I'm kinda ready for someone to just do him in and see what new psycho is brought forth bc, once the Joker was 'the villian' now to me he's just ehhh.

It will be the Batman who Riddles or the Batman who Freezes next!

[Aramis]

In my case, the main problem is not Batman not killing Joker. I absolutely disagree with his stupid code when it refers to killing the clown, but it's his thing, and I respect his fictional position. I don't get it, but I respect it. However, what I can't honestly understand, and I will forever hate, is how he FORBIDS others to do what needs to be done. How he forbids Jason to kill criminals "in his city"; how he doesn't allow Harley to kill the guy who basically ruined her whole life. Since when he has the rights to prevents others to do whatever they think is correct for the sake of the city, especially when he doesn't have that power over the criminals?

And even more, when Batman actively SAVES The Joker, now that's a whole level of rage that grows in my head. Remember that line from the Begins movie? "I won't kill you.. but I don't have to save you". I liked that, because even if I disagree with his code, I can see a Batman that is coherent with his own norms, and at the same time saves people from criminals. Current comic Batman sometimes looks like he cares more about Joker than any of his family.

btw, about the code, I don't mind Batman putting behind the bars the likes of Riddler or Freeze. They are criminals, and that's what needs to be done, don't get me wrong. But Joker is almost Hitler-level of evil, is a whole other thing. Let Kate, or Jason, or Helena (who are the ones ok with killing) do the right thing and dispose of the clown, Bruce!

[Stanlos]

There were a lot of things to like in Joker War. I liked the use of the various Rogues and seeing how they react to other rogue's big plans going on around them. Seeing Harley just straight up be a Batman family member and take up so much page time was a bit weird to me. I don't have a problem with Batman no killing code as he is a hero and an alpha and it fits his story. What I do have a problem with is how the inside of the comics so often failed to live up to the cover. The cover to 99 literally sold me on the crossover and prompted me to acquire Batman 85 through 100. Maybe this series would be better in an animated format as I really wanted to see the Batfamily show up and Get $#!+ Done.

Still, Jimenez art was pretty yummy and Tynion created a sense of spiciness and grandeur even if the follow-through was lacking (same for his OLD Witching stuff). I think the best thing about is the same as the best thing about the CATWOMAN film. That is, that the essence of who the character is was celebrated and rang true even if some of the how's and what along the way were not or miss.

[Stanlos]

Other things that stuck out for me was how bizarre it looks for Barbra Gordon being in the Batgirl uniform and walking and making reference to Oracle.

[scary harpy]

Other things that stuck out for me was how bizarre it looks for Barbra Gordon being in the Batgirl uniform and walking and making reference to Oracle.

I liked this.

Barbara transitioned from Batgirl to Oracle similar to Richard's transition from Robin to Nightwing...through maturation and not maiming.

[Mr. White]

In my case, the main problem is not Batman not killing Joker. I absolutely disagree with his stupid code when it refers to killing the clown, but it's his thing, and I respect his fictional position. I don't get it, but I respect it. However, what I can't honestly understand, and I will forever hate, is how he FORBIDS others to do what needs to be done. How he forbids Jason to kill criminals "in his city"; how he doesn't allow Harley to kill the guy who basically ruined her whole life. Since when he has the rights to prevents others to do whatever they think is correct for the sake of the city, especially when he doesn't have that power over the criminals?

And even more, when Batman actively SAVES The Joker, now that's a whole level of rage that grows in my head. Remember that line from the Begins movie? "I won't kill you.. but I don't have to save you". I liked that, because even if I disagree with his code, I can see a Batman that is coherent with his own norms, and at the same time saves people from criminals. Current comic Batman sometimes looks like he cares more about Joker than any of his family.

btw, about the code, I don't mind Batman putting behind the bars the likes of Riddler or Freeze. They are criminals, and that's what needs to be done, don't get me wrong. But Joker is almost Hitler-level of evil, is a whole other thing. Let Kate, or Jason, or Helena (who are the ones ok with killing) do the right thing and dispose of the clown, Bruce!

^^Too true. So frigging annoying.^^

But here's the problem with this view, which I also share. We are applying logic to a situation not governed by forces inside the comic/universe itself but in fact, outside factors. And that's DC as a business.

While death in comics these days doesn't really mean much, killing Joker will result in a popular/selling character to be out of commission (for a while) which to DC is "bad for business". Sure Joker has been put on the shelf a few times but that's just it - he'll be back . And when he's coming back, there's always a fanfare which drives sales up. Killing him off is cutting off a low hanging fruit branch (of income) for DC. Also being their most popular character's number 1 nemesis doesn't make things easier.

Sure Batman's code is a fundamental part of his character, but the elevation of Joker to a force of nature that has caused thousands of deaths has made it illogical at this point.

[Nite-Wing]

Sure Batman's code is a fundamental part of his character, but the elevation of Joker to a force of nature that has caused thousands of deaths has made it illogical at this point.

Its not just the Joker though its all of Batman's villains they have all gone through power creep/ level of competency to match his power creep and Batgod status

Top gotham killers so far
Ra's
Bane
Scarecrow
Joker

Honorable mention goes to Mr Freeze
You can't increase the stakes in a batman story without adding a body count for the villains otherwise these arcs would just end in one issue

Still don't like the overuse of the trope but Gotham is probably the worst city in the DCU and somehow its the most well known and well established lore wise as well

[skyvolt2000]

^^Too true. So frigging annoying.^^

Sure Batman's code is a fundamental part of his character, but the elevation of Joker to a force of nature that has caused thousands of deaths has made it illogical at this point.

Joker took out Duke's folks and Duke didn't even bother to go after himself (plot hole).


Anyway maybe the reason why Bats does want Joker killed by him or the family is because of this is...

Killing Joker makes him a martyr.

How many folks would be influenced by his death?

Would you rally want a bunch of Joker copycats-who are trying to push Batman to the killing point again?

What about places like Mission Hill (or is it Mission) where they are NOT scared of Batman? What influence could come out of there?

You get rid of Joker and friends-who WORST shows up?

[Frontier]

Joker took out Duke's folks and Duke didn't even bother to go after himself (plot hole).


Anyway maybe the reason why Bats does want Joker killed by him or the family is because of this is...

Killing Joker makes him a martyr.

How many folks would be influenced by his death?

Would you rally want a bunch of Joker copycats-who are trying to push Batman to the killing point again?

What about places like Mission Hill (or is it Mission) where they are NOT scared of Batman? What influence could come out of there?

You get rid of Joker and friends-who WORST shows up?

The fact that Jason or the rest of the Batfamily didn't get to weigh in on whether Batman should kill Joker instead of Quinn is another part of this story that just didn't work for me.

Snyder justified Batman not killing Joker with the thought that something worse would show up if it happened. The worst Dark Multiverse Batman came about because Batman killed Joker. Punchline would probably raze the whole city if she thought he was dead.

[prepmaster]

Killing Joker makes him a martyr.

Does killing Hitler makes him a martyr? When you have someone coming up with detailed war plans that result in so many death of innocents & destruction, its hard to argue for the guy being a martyr if he had been executed.

[Dboi2001]

I'm not pro-war in the Middle East but MANY things have led to the continued conflict there not just bin Laden's death. I'm just saying it's childish lunacy to say "oh, you can't get rid of a bad guy because then another bad guy might exist." Like imagine if we didn't execute prisoners for that reason. It's so dumb.

Now, if you're merely against Batman killing, that's fine. But when we're dealing with modern, 10,000+ body count Joker, I just think DC has never properly had Batman come face to face with the consequences of his code and choices in that context. In real life, anyone who killed the Joker would unequivocally be hailed as a global hero. I dunno.

I looked up on the dc wiki how many people Joker has murdered. All together it is 616 and I’m the new 52 it’s 140+. Regardless like I said killing the joker wouldn’t solve anything and someone worse would just take his place. Also as for your comparison with Hitler the only reason Germany didn’t retaliate with a new leader is because it was crippled by being split into 2

Regardless like it’s been mentioned before Joker also controls a gang with parts of Gotham. Joker does what happens next? I’m not saying don’t execute joker because some else will replace him I’m saying there is no point. Batman can kill him but what would that accomplish? And as mentioned the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t know

I’d argue Batman coming face to face about his code is almost a cliche at this point

[Dboi2001]

In my case, the main problem is not Batman not killing Joker. I absolutely disagree with his stupid code when it refers to killing the clown, but it's his thing, and I respect his fictional position. I don't get it, but I respect it. However, what I can't honestly understand, and I will forever hate, is how he FORBIDS others to do what needs to be done. How he forbids Jason to kill criminals "in his city"; how he doesn't allow Harley to kill the guy who basically ruined her whole life. Since when he has the rights to prevents others to do whatever they think is correct for the sake of the city, especially when he doesn't have that power over the criminals?

And even more, when Batman actively SAVES The Joker, now that's a whole level of rage that grows in my head. Remember that line from the Begins movie? "I won't kill you.. but I don't have to save you". I liked that, because even if I disagree with his code, I can see a Batman that is coherent with his own norms, and at the same time saves people from criminals. Current comic Batman sometimes looks like he cares more about Joker than any of his family.

btw, about the code, I don't mind Batman putting behind the bars the likes of Riddler or Freeze. They are criminals, and that's what needs to be done, don't get me wrong. But Joker is almost Hitler-level of evil, is a whole other thing. Let Kate, or Jason, or Helena (who are the ones ok with killing) do the right thing and dispose of the clown, Bruce!

Allowing someone to kill someone else is no different then doing it yourself. Also how many people has Mr Freeze murdered? Like where does Batman draw the lime then? Look at Two Face’s body count. Or even the messed up stuff Scarecrow has done which is arguably worse than death

[Hcmarvel]

Allowing someone to kill someone else is no different then doing it yourself. Also how many people has Mr Freeze murdered? Like where does Batman draw the lime then? Look at Two Face’s body count. Or even the messed up stuff Scarecrow has done which is arguably worse than death

That slippery slope line doesn't really work with Batman. He's one of the most disciplined characters in fiction. The idea that if he killed Joker he would find excuses to kill the rest of the rogues gallery doesn't really work. I have difficulty believing that if he decided to kill Joker a switch would flip and he'd kill all his bad guys.

The idea that if he killed Joker something worse would take his place is also incredibly silly.

The fact is, there is no "good" explanation for Batman's no killing policy. You just have to accept it as part of his weird crusade.