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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    In fact, I actually think that's true for other Marvel adaptations. Like the X-Men in comics are famous for boasting a great range of female characters, with Storm being the Marvel female character with most appearances (and three other X-Ladies in the top 10 - Emma, Jean, Kitty) but the movies make it a story of three old white dudes (Logan, Xavier, Magneto). As bad and weak as Susan Storm was in the Lee-Kirby days, I think the Fantastic Four movies are even worse, like Tim Story's Fantastic Four with Jessica Alba kept making jokes about how hot she was
    I haven't read much of the Fantastic Four and barely remember those movies, but I agree that the x-movies left much to be desired in its handling of the women. Storm and Emma in particular (my personal favorite x-women) were shadows of their comic selves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Exactly. I found Emma Stone's Gwen unbelievable. In the comics, even the Lee-Romita era made her neurotic (accidentally since they intended the character to be a nice girl but didn't execute it well), like she had an obvious oedipus complex being very close to her father and falling for a boy who is so much like her father and constantly trying to mould Peter to be even more like her dad, all the while not entirely aware of the full spectrum of character both her father and Peter had.
    The problem with Lee-Romita Gwen wasn't that she didn't have any flaws, but that she lacked depth and consistency. Whatever flaws she had were momentarily used to stir up drama between her and Peter in a typical silver age fashion and then forgotten shortly afterwards.

    Interestingly enough, what 616 Gwen and Emma's Gwen have in common is that they are predominantly plot-driven characters. The plot demands that 616 Gwen be the main love interest and more popular than Mary Jane so let's just borrow some characteristics from MJ, redesign the character, and ignore what came prior. The plot demands that Emma's Gwen be adored prior to her death so let's idealize the character and make her immediately supportive of Peter's vigilantism. With both characters you can see the strings behind the writing. (To be fair though, this is an issue that occurs repeatedly with several characters in the TASM films.)

    Raimi's portrayal of Mary Jane certainly has its problems, but what she has in common with 616 MJ is that she is far more character-driven. Aside from seemingly always being in the wrong place at the wrong time, most everything about MJ from the character's occupation to her relationships with Peter, Harry, Flash, and John are a product of or influenced by insecurities brought about by an abusive childhood. That's good writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Well he's still presented as an impressive force of authority which isn't to be questioned. Like we are meant to assume on face value in that dinner scene that the cops knew what they were doing when Spider-Man barged in on what turned to be a "sting operation", and likewise at the end, George Stacy's final moment is intervening and using force to stop the Lizard from killing Spider-Man. George Stacy presents a figure of authority and masculinity whose approval is worthy of earning in the movie. It matters in the movie that the cops of NYPD come around to Spider-Man.
    I never got that impression from watching the film, but I suppose I'm due for a rewatch.
    Last edited by Spider-Tiger; 06-15-2020 at 02:36 PM.

  2. #62
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    ...I think people are really over-thinking Captain Stacy here. He was just the typical "tough but honest cop who hates vigilantes but who grows to understand what they're really about" who is also the father of their love interest for secret identity drama.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Tiger View Post
    I haven't read much of the Fantastic Four and barely remember those movies, but I agree that the x-movies left much to be desired in its handling of the women. Storm and Emma in particular (my personal favorite x-women) were shadows of their comic selves.
    I never understood why people hated the XMen movies or why people thought it didn't focus enough on other characters but that is a discussion for another thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Tiger View Post
    I never got that impression from watching the film, but I suppose I'm due for a rewatch.
    Because that wasn't the point. This guy just wants to get triggered. As someone else mentioned Stacy was just a hard nosed cop

  4. #64
    Mighty Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    ...I think people are really over-thinking Captain Stacy here. He was just the typical "tough but honest cop who hates vigilantes but who grows to understand what they're really about" who is also the father of their love interest for secret identity drama.
    in my time here everything is over analyze and break down then again its the same for when I watch One Piece YouTubers
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

  5. #65
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    Of course more teens worked during the 60s. Depression tend to come short on jobs. However the idea that Peter should help provide for his elderly aunt and uncle was a big deal in the 40s not the 60s. And no 50 percent of teens didnít work in the 60s and especially the 2000s. And only 20 percent of teens in high school have jobs today and in 2012 it was 16 percent the lowest ever recorded. So no Peter isnít a moocher grand dad just because in your day you were paying the house rent and electric bill

    https://www.childtrends.org/indicators/youth-employment

  6. #66
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    Here is my take: Liked Emma Stone. Best love interest in a live action Spider-Man movie. Disliked: Tom Holland. Simply got Peter wrong ( disliked him like I did Clooney in Batman and Robin). Hated: Dane DeHaan ( his Harry Osborn is one of the worst characters I ever saw in a comic book movie (on the level of Alicia Silverstone in Batman and Robin? No not that bad ( Silverstone is my all-time least favorite actress), but just to be mentioned with her speaks volumes of how I hated his version of Harry).

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    Here is my take: Liked Emma Stone. Best love interest in a live action Spider-Man movie. Disliked: Tom Holland. Simply got Peter wrong ( disliked him like I did Clooney in Batman and Robin). Hated: Dane DeHaan ( his Harry Osborn is one of the worst characters I ever saw in a comic book movie (on the level of Alicia Silverstone in Batman and Robin? No not that bad ( Silverstone is my all-time least favorite actress), but just to be mentioned with her speaks volumes of how I hated his version of Harry).
    Don't you mean Andrew Garfield?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Don't you mean Andrew Garfield?
    You are correct.

  9. #69
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Before I start, I'll probably guess that some people (mostly the normies) initially disliked ASM1/2 because they believed they kept Spidey from being in the MCU so they were glad to see the movies ill-received after ASM2.

    Now personally, I don't like the Gwen Stacy character but that's mostly because (a) she was absent for most of my Spidey reading career and (b) she wasn't a very good character in the issues I did read about her. So after Spectacular Spider-Man where she's portrayed pretty well, ASM turns her into a miracle girlfriend for Peter who supports his superhero antics AND has enough knowledge to help him out with his hero-related problems.

    Lizard and Electro are okay but they're up there in the list of easy to adapt to movie villains. When's Big Wheel? Can't believe they wasted Jamie Foxx on that crappy Electro tho. Not sure why they went for "misunderstood loner" instead of just straight up a-hole.

    ASM had the missing parents subplot which doesn't even factor into the main comics anymore but they were trying rather hard to differentiate themselves from Raimi so they stuck it in. ASM2 added Osborn drama and Sinister Six teases. Unbelievable.

    They could've subverted expectations and have Gwen survive ASM2 but nah.

    So ASM1 was alright; probably tied with Homecoming but ASM2 is worse than those 2 and Far From Home.
    "Cable was right!"

  10. #70
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    How exactly did he get Peter Parker wrong? He acted like Peter from the Ultimates comic run

  11. #71
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    TASM1 The part where Peter steals another dudes ID. And that guy gets dragged out by Security. Not funny at all. cringe moment.

    TASM making ugly & uncool villains. Look at MCU Spidey and even Raimi Spidey they make cool villains. look at MCU Vulture and Mysterio.

    Versus TASM Lizard, Rhino and Goblin looks meh. Having awesome cool Villains makes for awesome movie.


    Over the top quips maybe awesome to Spider-man comic fans, but to the General audience they sound obnoxious.

    They killed the father Capt Stacy and then killed the daughter Gwen Stacy. That's just awfully nightmarish scenario to some cultures.

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