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  1. #1
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    Default Why do so many people hate TASM series?

    I always see people rate TASM and TASM2 as being either the worst or near the bottom of Spider-Man movies but I think there was still a lot of good with them and quite a lot of things I liked more than the MCU Spider-Man. Now starting off what I disliked I will admit that the villains were lacking. The only one I felt was good was Dr Connors/The Lizard with the only bad thing is his Lizard design (but he still looked really creepy and great). Harry had potential but he should've been saved for TASM3 with his disease slowly affecting rather than how rapid it started to affect him. Electro was wasted and Rhino was... well he was there. The Raimi villains were all fantastic and the MCU villains were really good as well. The other thing is too much of a focus on Richard Parker and making Peter special. I am not against Spider-Man focusing more on science but I feel the whole subplot in TASM2 was unnecessary. And yes I will admit TASM2 was a disappointment but I don't think it was terrible and if Sony didn't interfere it could've rivaled Spider-Man 2. Now onto what I think TASM did better compared to both Raimi and MCU

    1. Best Spider-Man- I will die on this hill and say Andrew Garfield was the best Spider-Man. He just had the perfect blend of charisma and playfulness. Pretty much any action scene in TASM and TASM2 was so much fun. Tobey just felt too stiff at times and Holland while better as Spider-Man than Tobey just lack the energy and charisma Garfield had. His suits were also amazing as well (TASM2 having easily the best suit design of any Spider-Man movie and best Spider logo) and his movements were fantastic. I see people criticize Garfield for being too attractive or acts too cool and not a realistic nerd but I disagree. Whenever he talks to girls he always stutters and acts awkward even with Gwen. And he is sure a lot closer than Holland who has plenty of friends. I will say he did look a little old for a 17-18 year old but it wasn't that distracting to me and is sometimes the voice I read Spider-Man comics with (along with Keaton and Yuri). Speaking of Gwen

    2. Best love interest. Hands down Gwen is the best love interest and way better than either of the MJs. Gwen in the Ditko-Lee era was never that great of a character and before Spider-Gwen and some modern interpretations she was only remembered for dying. But man TASM did a fantastic job. Emma Stone was perfect and she wasn't just a damsel in distress and actually helped Peter defeat the villains in both movies. MJ in FFH only helped Spidey by accident. In the Raimi movies I never cared for MJ and how dead Christine Durst was and MJ in the MCU is just way too over the top as a socially awkward loner. The romance in TASM just felt the most natural and best of any superhero movie

    3. Action and affects- Honestly I think the action and effects easily rival the Raimi trilogy (which still hold up today) and are leagues above the MCU Spider-Man. it is honestly surprising how much the MCU affects regressed compared to TASM2 especially with the web slinging and suit ripples. A lot of the action in Homecoming and in FFH just felt dull and although FFH had its moments I just felt TASM was overall much better. He really moved and fought like actual spider

    4. Better side characters- The Raimi trilogy did the side characters like Aunt May and Harry a lot better but TASM is still heads and shoulders above MCU Spider-Man. I already went over love interests so moving on to supporting characters. First off Flash in TASM was so much better and it honestly sucks how little we saw of him. In Raimi Spider-Man he was just a generic bully/jock which worked fine for what it was but MCU Flash is just pathetic. IDK if it is the writing or just miscast but Flash is just plain stupid in the MCU and doesn't come off as a bully. I know they wanted to do something but it just was a misguided direction. Flash in TASM started off as a bully but after Ben died we saw him being sympathetic to Peter and by the end they were good friends. Again I only wish we saw more of him. Now Raimi Aunt May is easily the best and while TASM May was essentially the dollar store version of the previous May she is still way better than MCU's Aunt May. I'm not even gonna bother with a rant because that is how insignificant she is in the MCU whereas the previous two were pretty damn vital for Peter's story. As for Peter's friends both Harrys are way better than Ned. Honestly I kinda question what was even the point of making Ned Leeds Peter's best friend but casting a man who looks like Ganke from the Ultimate Spider-Man Miles series. If they have him become the Hob Goblin why even bother when there is a far superior version? Again I get Harry has been done before but changing things for the sake of being different isn't an excuse. Peter's other classmates are just plain forgettable and pretty much cannon fodder

    Honestly it sucks TASM failed and at this point I'd rather get TASM3 over another MCU Spider-Man because of how fantastic Garfield was which I thought I'd never say. I always wanted Peter in the MCU but now that he is here it just feels underwhelming and a huge downgrade. I really loved Holland in the Russo directed movies but in his own movies he just hasn't been that great and I honestly wish they brought Garfield back. I know it was a longshot but if JK Simmons can come back as JJJ there is no reason they couldn't bring Andrew back. It honestly would've been nice to see a young adult Spider-Man acting like an actual scientist like in Spider-Man PS4 which would've been interesting and different from both previous version since while Raimi's Spider-Man was an adult he never did anything science-y despite being intelligent and TASM who only graduated college. I know we haven't gotten a teen high school romcom Spider-Man movie but honestly given what we got I'm glad Raimi and Webb didn't go that direction. Spider-Man barely ever focused on High School and as neat as it could've been it was completely blown in the MCU. On top of that I feel TASM3 has way more potential Spiderman Something relating to Home I guess. Yeah Peter's identity is revealed to the world but honestly it was just way too soon not to mention if they put MJ or Aunt May or any of his classmates in danger I simply won't give a shit because of how little they were developed. Call me a cynic but I honestly think this was just Marvel's excuse to get pass the secret identity thing with Spider-Man so he can be like every other hero who doesn't really have a secret identity. I wouldn't be surprised if Peter inherits Stark Industries by the end of Spider-Man HOM3. It is honestly a shame that the MCU has wasted Spider-Man when everyone thought this would be the magnum opus of Spider-Man and I did too. Again I will give credit where credit is due the villains in MCU Spider-Man are a lot better even if they tie way too much with Stark and are decent movies but I honestly like TASM1 better than both and certainly like TASM2 over Homecoming

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    I always see people rate TASM and TASM2 as being either the worst or near the bottom of Spider-Man movies but I think there was still a lot of good with them and quite a lot of things I liked more than the MCU Spider-Man.
    That's entirely fair and right for you to derive meaning from those movies. There are movies that I like and appreciate that are still generally disliked by most people.

    As to why people hate the TASM Series. Well the consensus is...
    -- Peter having a genius Dad, Richard, who is more important than Ben.
    -- Andrew Garfield supposedly being a high school teenager but being 29 years old at the time of TASM-1 (for comparison Tobey was 27 at the time of SM-1 playing a character who was only in high school for half a movie as opposed to Garfield's Peter).
    -- Inconsistent and Incoherent Tone. The series lacked identity. Is it "back-to-basics", is it 'Ultimate Spider-Man', is it going for a Lee-Romita vibe. It's a mash of all three without any consistency.
    -- Visually it's quite drab and uncreative. Having a surface realism unlike the striking visual design of the Raimi movies. Granted the MCU movies suck too but at least having a TV-style sitcom appearance provides some consistency as opposed to these movies.
    -- Wasted and Miscast Actors. Andrew Garfield just isn't right for the part. He's a talented and capable actor but totally wrong for the part. He overdoes all his scenes and takes the part too seriously, lacking the proper reading of the tone that both Tobey Maguire and Tom Holland give to the part. Garfield plays Peter too intensely, it's like seeing a method actor go through motions. And that's not the kind of performance that suits a role like this.
    -- Martin Sheen and Sally Field are just too good for their roles and limited screentime.
    -- The Peter-Gwen romance didn't really make sense movie-to-movie. The romance took up too much space and room in a story with an overcomplicated plot.
    -- All the set-up for movies and spinoffs and worldbuilding and so on that ultimately became frustrating and irritating and went nowhere.

    These movies were made by talented people so occassionally that talent shows, but it was rushed into production without a clear vision and focus, all to chase the trends of the MCU.

    Now starting off what I disliked I will admit that the villains were lacking. The only one I felt was good was Dr Connors/The Lizard with the only bad thing is his Lizard design (but he still looked really creepy and great).
    I dunno I didn't care for TASM-Lizard much to be honest. He doesn't work as a hermit living-alone scientist without a wife and a kid. Rhys Ifans was a good actor and he gives his best but the part doesn't suit it. They tried to make Doc Connors into Molina Ock.

    Harry had potential but he should've been saved for TASM3
    Harry should never have been used. Certainly not as Green Goblin or killer-of-Gwen, it's not a role the character was created for or can believably support.

    Gwen in the Ditko-Lee era was never that great of a character
    Disagree there. Lee-Ditko Gwen is the best version of Gwen, only consistent and interesting Gwen.

    I always wanted Peter in the MCU but now that he is here it just feels underwhelming and a huge downgrade.
    Not a fan of the MCU Spider-Man either, but that doesn't mean all is forgiven with TASM either.

  3. #3
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    the screenplay
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  4. #4
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    The Amazing Spider-Man was good enough and pretty well received, but it was a bit too soon to do another origin movie. Great cast, especially Emma Stone. Best use of Flash Thompson. A definite step up from Spider-Man 3.

    The Amazing Spider-Man 2 had a lot to like about it (the opening, the costume, Gwen) but the plot was an overstuffed mess, more so than Spider-Man 3. Electro's character arc was muddled and weak. Green Goblin was shoe-horned in. Gwen's death was a huge waste. Like Spider-Man 3, it gives the impression that it was ruined by executive meddling, too many cooks in the kitchen. A huge shame, because the scenes where Spider-Man was just being the "friendly neighborhood Spider-Man" in NYC was some of the best Spider-Man stuff in any of the movies.

    The mystery of Peter's parents was dead weight, the payoff wasn't worth it, it distracted from the things the films did better.

  5. #5
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    They are mostly hated for their lack of clear vision and scripts being a total mess. They didn't have a single great villain. The worldbuilding came off pointless at best and reeked of corporate greed at worst. These are all things that left a bad taste in people's mouths.

    There is a smidge of truth in saying they were treated unfairly. For example, they get singled out for their treatment of Uncle Ben (and for replacing Uncle Ben with a more flawed father figure) more than the MCU Spider-Man.

    Still, the key word is 'smidge'. Was it enough to literally sink the franchise and have Sony run to Marvel? Obviously not. They could have won people over with a good script and a more consistent take. It's not like there weren't successful non-MCU films during this period. Sony could have won people over, but ultimately did not.
    Last edited by Kaitou D. Kid; 06-13-2020 at 02:41 PM.

  6. #6
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    I understand a lot of those complaints but at the same time I feel a lot applies to the mcu Spiderman as well. Too much shared universe nonsense? Shifting focus from Uncle to someone else? Making Peter super special?

    I definitely disagree on Garfield as Spiderman and Gwen. I felt Garfield was the most lively and emotional Spider Man not to mention had the best interactions it’s people (Like when he saved Max). Tobey just felt too stiff at times and never felt super lively. Holland is somewhere in the middle of Garfield and Tobey though. At the same time when he needed to be aggressive he could pull it off. Tobey also pulled off more aggressive Spiderman well and Holland still needs a little work. As for Gwen the Ditko-Lee era Gwen was always just a damsel in distress and just a typical popular hot blonde type. Gwen in TASM felt like a blend between classic Gwen and Spectacular Spiderman. I also enjoyed the more science focus which I feel was a missed opportunity in MCU Spiderman since he goes to what seems like a magnet school.

    I do agree TASM2 was too muddled but it still feels like a great movie is somewhere in there and even picking one plot element would make it amazing but they added too many plot points. Like I said Harry being the green goblin should’ve been saved for TASM3 (or if you want just have Norman not die but lose the company because he’s basically a vegetable) or that Harry wants to cure his father and also save Gwen’s death for later.

    Mcu Spiderman on the other hand feels like someone who thinks they know Spiderman when they don’t. An example is playing up the high school aspect when Spiderman has never been about high school and don’t playing the whole responsibility and actions come with consequences moral. Like it was honestly stupid to have Peter feel like he’s nothing without his suit especially since he was Spider-Man well before Stark gave him his suit or the fact besides Liz having to move away (which barely feels emotional since she was incredibly shallow) everything is fine at the end. He’s still apart of the academic team despite ditching them in DC, he hasn’t gotten suspended for cutting classes or detention and hey even Tombs promised to not tell anyone his identity. Honestly I feel only Goblin should ever know Peter’s identity it’s stupid how every spider man movie has the villain discover that he is Peter Parker. Like what Stan Lee said Doc Ock is Spider-Man’s greatest enemy but the Green Goblin is Peter Parker’s greatest enemy

  7. #7
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    The second film to me, beyond a few scenes, felt like a fever dream. Something happened, then Electro came about, then Peter and Gwen did something, then Electro was defeated somehow, then the Green Goblin and Gwen's death, other stuff, etc. The most memorable parts of the first film were that of Peter sneaking into the lab, a scene or two with Aunt May, and portions of the fights with the Lizard (fighting in the school and Connors' death), as well as bits of Cap. Stacy's death. The two films, especially the second, felt a lot of the time like disembodied ghosts haunting some glitchy mirror realm of the Raimi trilogy.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    I understand a lot of those complaints but at the same time I feel a lot applies to the mcu Spiderman as well.
    Not a fan of MCU Spider-Man but again that doesn't mean TASM is improved all of a sudden.

    I definitely disagree on Garfield as Spiderman and Gwen. I felt Garfield was the most lively and emotional Spider Man not to mention had the best interactions itís people (Like when he saved Max). Tobey just felt too stiff at times and never felt super lively.
    Don't know what you mean by "lively"? Tobey Maguire's Peter was driven by a strong interior performance and a more introspective approach. That suited that version of the character well. Just because Garfield hammed up doesn't mean it was right. As I said the problem with Garfield was that he was too intense.

    As for Gwen the Ditko-Lee era Gwen was always just a damsel in distress and just a typical popular hot blonde type.
    I think you are misunderstanding Lee-Romita Gwen with Lee-Ditko.The original Gwen introduced by Lee-Ditko was definitely not "damsel in distress". She was a cold, cruel, mean socialite and a bully.

    Gwen in TASM felt like a blend between classic Gwen and Spectacular Spiderman.
    She felt utterly disconnected from any version of Gwen and was basically Emma Stone being her nice self before the camera.

  9. #9
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    Tobey was a great Peter Parker.
    Tom manages to be a really fun Spider-man.

    Garfield manages to do neither.

    They try to tell us he's a social outcast, but they show him as a good looking, smart-assed skater, who's good at sports and has a genius level IQ. You can do one or the other. Do you want social outcast Spider-man or do you want cool good at everything Spider-man? The movie tried to do both an it fell flat. He was never a believable loner.

    He's far less nerdy loner and far more smug douche, even managing to come across as creepy at times. Like how he mentions he's been following Gwen after he told her dying father he wouldn't see her anymore.

    Or how he made pretty much no effort to try to save his best friends life. All it would have took was a blood donation to help out, but this Peter didn't feel like it.

    There's also the moments where he's blatantly using his powers out of costume to show off in front of others.

    The villains... okay, honestly, Lizard wasn't bad. Kinda funny looking, but not bad.

    Electro though, he was just outright horrible. He became a villain because he was a fan of Spider-man and Spidey didn't recognize him. That's not exactly prime super villain origin material. Green Goblin was incredibly rushed and given a design that you would have to work hard to make look worse. The less said about Rhino the better.

  10. #10
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    I mean energetic, witty and well sounding alive. I get Tobey was more serious but he just sounded kinda dull even when cracking jokes. Like take in Spider-Man 2 when Spider Man saves the kids to in TASM2 when he helps the kid being bullied. I know it isn't a 1-1 but Tobey just sounded kinda flat and didn't have that much wittiness compared to Andrew. Or after he saved MJ during the parade on the balcony. He was clearly trying to be humorous when he told her "beats taking the subway." Just something was lacking in his voice. Spider-Man is suppose to be kinda quippy and fun at times. Tobey just lacked that. Like one of my favorite parts in TASM was Spider-Man toying with the car thief. Tobey was great but I just feel at times he was too stoic or his voice sounded too flat and simply didn't have the same charisma and energy that Andrew had. That also isn't to say Andrew didn't have his more serious moments like when fighting the lizard and seeing Captain Stacy die or heck when he stopped messing with the car thief and checked his arm to see if he was Ben's killer.

    I really don't know what you are talking. Gwen became nice after she became Peter's girlfriend and kinda lost her personality which is why they killed her off in favor of MJ. Gwen was just a much better character in TASM and certain better than both MJs. She had her own ambitions and even helped Spider-Man beat Electro and the Lizard. MJ in the Raimi trilogy was just incredibly bland kinda a bitch especially when she left John at the alter and MJ in the MCU is just over the top being socially awkward. I don't have anything against Zendaya or Christine Durst but MJ in both movies are just written so horribly. Gwen in TASM was ambitious, smart and kind while still being assertive and selfless (when she confronts Flash or when she makes the antidote instead of leaving) which is way more than I can say for both MJs combined

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Tobey was a great Peter Parker.
    Tom manages to be a really fun Spider-man.

    Garfield manages to do neither.

    They try to tell us he's a social outcast, but they show him as a good looking, smart-assed skater, who's good at sports and has a genius level IQ. You can do one or the other. Do you want social outcast Spider-man or do you want cool good at everything Spider-man? The movie tried to do both an it fell flat. He was never a believable loner.

    He's far less nerdy loner and far more smug douche, even managing to come across as creepy at times. Like how he mentions he's been following Gwen after he told her dying father he wouldn't see her anymore.

    Or how he made pretty much no effort to try to save his best friends life. All it would have took was a blood donation to help out, but this Peter didn't feel like it.

    There's also the moments where he's blatantly using his powers out of costume to show off in front of others.

    The villains... okay, honestly, Lizard wasn't bad. Kinda funny looking, but not bad.

    Electro though, he was just outright horrible. He became a villain because he was a fan of Spider-man and Spidey didn't recognize him. That's not exactly prime super villain origin material. Green Goblin was incredibly rushed and given a design that you would have to work hard to make look worse. The less said about Rhino the better.
    And Tom Holland isnt good looking with genius level IQ? Peter had a skateboard to get around places. Just having a skateboard doesn't make you cool and good at sports? If you mean the basketball scene that was after he got his powers. He was socially awkward like when the girl asked him to take pictures of her boyfriend's car or when he was asking Gwen out.

    Did you not pay attention in TASM1? Richard Parker's formula turned him into a monster and when Peter found his dad's secret lab he explained only Parker DNA could utilize the serum and without it would turn people into monsters like the Lizard. If he gave harry his blood he'd turn into a monster

    Using his powers out of costumes what like Peter jumping 6 feet in the air or punching a kid across the hallway or jumping across buildings mid day or hell even using his super strength and wall crawling in front of a large crowd along with showing his face to the employer? Oh wait that was Tobey. Or how about that one scene where Peter makes his webbing in the middle of class and hides it in his desk? Wait a sec that was Homecoming. Yeah sure Peter using his sticky hands acting like he is just palming the ball or doing a dunk is showing off his powers

  12. #12
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    Of all of the onscreen love interests, Emma's Gwen was the most charismatic. But she wasn't enough to elevate the material.

    As others have echoed, the problem was in the script and direction. Certainly not the cast. From a filmmaking perspective, it was simply a case of trying to be too many things for too many people. Despite all of their "inaccuracies", MCU's Spider-man films are much more focused and cohesive productions.

    The TASM films also set themselves up for a loss by retreading ground that was already covered by Sam Raimi. The MCU films are, at least, a more unique approach to the character. They don't try to evoke the classics.

    From the perspective of a Spider-man fan, IMO the TASM films grossly misunderstood the mythology. They overemphasized elements that are peripheral to the Spider-man mythology at the expense of those that are central.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Andrew Garfield just isn't right for the part. He's a talented and capable actor but totally wrong for the part. He overdoes all his scenes and takes the part too seriously, lacking the proper reading of the tone that both Tobey Maguire and Tom Holland give to the part. Garfield plays Peter too intensely, it's like seeing a method actor go through motions. And that's not the kind of performance that suits a role like this.
    Although I think there were some good moments with him in the suit, I agree that his performance as Peter was ridiculously over the top. Less is more and the director should have reined him in. I wouldn't say he was wrong for the part though. Maybe an odd choice considering the younger direction thst Sony execs were pushing for.

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    And what about the mcu overemphasizing the peripheral elements of Spider Man? Hell they borderline focus more on the mcu than Spider Man in his own movies.

    I don’t get why people are saying Andrew was over the top. First you say he acts “too cool” but when he acts nervous around girls you say it’s too over the top. Sure let’s not pretend how over the top half of the Raimi trilogy was. Andrew simply felt the most charismatic and fun not to mention had some amazing interactions with people like with Max and the boy who was being bullied. Admittedly TASM2 was a mess but I feel there were very high highs and low lows compared to the mcu Spiderman which feels kinda meh

  14. #14
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    I actually liked the Amazing Spider-Man films, I thought they were a better follow-up/reboot and more faithful adaptation to the comics than the MCU versions. I still love the Tobey McGuire/Raimi films the most, but TASM is not as bad as people say and Garfield was a more accurate Spider-Man than Holland is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfang View Post
    I actually liked the Amazing Spider-Man films, I thought they were a better follow-up/reboot and more faithful adaptation to the comics than the MCU versions. I still love the Tobey McGuire/Raimi films the most, but TASM is not as bad as people say and Garfield was a more accurate Spider-Man than Holland is.
    Totally agree. Raimi trilogy (or more specifically 1 and 2) will always be held highly in my heart. Sure some things haven’t aged that great but they’re still fantastic movies. My only big issues are MJ and Tobey not being as charismatic even when given the chance. I know he is a more serious take but that doesn’t mean not having jokes which there clearly were quips and jokes in the movie. Garfield just felt a lot more natural as Spider-Man. Holland still has a chance to become the best spider man especially after what we saw in Infinity war and endgame but something is holding him back in the solo movies. Maybe it’s the director or writing but he is obviously talented. For know though Garfield is my favorite live action spider man (comparing voice acting to live action isn’t all that fair) with Tobey in second and Holland a close third but I still enjoy all 3 takes

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