Your Marvel-Only Controversial Opinions (2020...)

[PCN24454]

This sounds remarkably like “how dare the character I prefer be flawed and/or wrong about something and this other guy point out those flaws within the narrative” in which case, your setting yourself up for continuous disappointment as: a) as an intellectual property worth millions Cap will always be a part of the Marvel Universe moreover he’s a useful tool narratively to be the voice of reason and for that reason writers love to use him b) people who’s first reaction is to measure up characters against each other will never find contentment because in serial storytelling that spans decades and multiple writers you always have a mixture of good and bad takes, that’s just the nature of the business c) characters need to grow, in team books, Cap, as the leader, helps them do that, it’s his job, in Cap books Cap learns from others, there is a reason Cap surrounds himself with strong personalities re: Sam, Sharon, Bernie, Rachel, Arnie, etc. in that he’s learned something from all of them and none of them are afraid to call him out if he’s misstepped and he actually appreciates that about them.

I just find it interesting that they didn't have the problem until Cap showed up. It's like how Batman is the designated "smart guy" of the Justice League.

[capandkirby]

I just find it interesting that they didn't have the problem until Cap showed up. It's like how Batman is the designated "smart guy" of the Justice League.

If by “they” you mean the Illuminati, a group of ALL MALE BILLIONAIRES who, without a single vote from anybody anywhere, took it upon themselves to decide the fate of the universe, often with terrible consequences, and without even considering the moral implications, then I wholeheartedly disagree that ‘they didn’t have a problem’. They were a problem before they decided a thing and continued to be a problem after. If you’re referring to ‘they’ as in the Avengers prior to finding Cap on the ice, you know, those whole three issues, wherein they were fighting each other, destroying things and rampaging across New York, culminating with Hulk quitting because of his treatment by the others, then again, I disagree.

How dare Cap be practical! I mean the nerve of anyone trying to insert a little order into chaos, imma right?! *rolls eyes*

[capandkirby]

Everything’s fine, here, no problems whatsoever...

[PCN24454]

Everything’s fine, here, no problems whatsoever...

Hulk (and Banner) is ridiculously inconsistent in terms of personality and motivation, and more often than not, he's pretty selfish. It's why despite sympathizing with him that I have a hard time seeing why people would trust him.

[capandkirby]

Hulk (and Banner) is ridiculously inconsistent in terms of personality and motivation, and more often than not, he's pretty selfish. It's why despite sympathizing with him that I have a hard time seeing why people would trust him.

Hulk vs both Iron Man and Thor wasn’t the only fight going on there. They were all fighting each other. And meanwhile Cap is chilling in the ice, having nothing whatsoever to do with that chaotic energy. Look, hate who you hate, but don’t dress up your hatred by inventing things, that’s all I’m trying to say. “Cap” made them look bad?! Nope, they did that to themselves before he was even on the scene.

Bad faith reading: the practical one makes the others look bad because they, as humans do, had moments of impractical-ness.

Regular reading: a good team is composed of ALL personality types for it to work. It’s nice that they found Steve (by reader/popular demand, no less, I mean Stan Lee did ask and the response was an emphatic YES) and he was able to bring something to the group.

[PCN24454]

Hulk vs both Iron Man and Thor wasn’t the only fight going on there. They were all fighting each other. And meanwhile Cap is chilling in the ice, having nothing whatsoever to do with that chaotic energy. Look, hate who you hate, but don’t dress up your hatred by inventing things, that’s all I’m trying to say. “Cap” made them look bad?! Nope, they did that to themselves before he was even on the scene.

Bad faith reading: the practical one makes the others look bad because they, as humans do, had moments of impractical-ness.

Regular reading: a good team is composed of ALL personality types for it to work. It’s nice that they found Steve (by reader/popular demand, no less, I mean Stan Lee did ask and the response was an emphatic YES) and he was able to bring something to the group.

What are you talking about? I wasn't even talking about Captain America in that reply.

[capandkirby]

What are you talking about? I wasn't even talking about Captain America in that reply.

You’re initial argument: Cap makes other characters look incompetent. They were competent before him!

Me: Um, well, actually, they did a good job of making themselves look pretty unorganized before they even knew he was still alive *presents proof in panels*.

You: Well, I mean Hulk is Hulk.

Me: Hulk was not the only one throwing punches. Thus your original premise was flawed and also biased.

You: How is this related to Cap?

...Gotta admit ‘selective amnesia’ isn’t a fallacy of logic I’ve seen utilized a lot in debates here before so props on originality, I guess?

[Tony Stark]

You’re initial argument: Cap makes other characters look incompetent. They were competent before him!

Me: Um, well, actually, they did a good job of making themselves look pretty unorganized before they even knew he was still alive *presents proof in panels*.

You: Well, I mean Hulk is Hulk.

Me: Hulk was not the only one throwing punches. Thus your original premise was flawed and also biased.

You: How is this related to Cap?

...Gotta admit ‘selective amnesia’ isn’t a fallacy of logic I’ve seen utilized a lot in debates here before so props on originality, I guess?

You should read Casey’s Avengers Earths Mightiest Heroes if you think the Avengers were incompetent before Cap got there.

[capandkirby]

My complaint would be that he seemingly causes the IQs of everyone else in the room to drop just by being there.

You should read Casey’s Avengers Earths Mightiest Heroes if you think the Avengers were incompetent before Cap got there.

I didn’t say it. I specifically used the term unorganized. In response to PCN24454‘s first quote that I included in this post. I actually don’t like to character bash as I feel that every character means something to someone, so this entire time I’ve been trying to be pretty diplomatic considering *my* favorite character was attacked. And those first three issues of Avengers DID highlight why Steve’s practical personality was a good and needed addition to the team. Go back and read them yourself if you have doubts *shrug*.

[Tony Stark]

I didn’t say it. I specifically used the term unorganized. In response to PCN24454‘s first quote that I included in this post. I actually don’t like to character bash as I feel that every character means something to someone, so this entire time I’ve been trying to be pretty diplomatic considering *my* favorite character was attacked. And those first three issues of Avengers DID highlight why Steve’s practical personality was a good and needed addition to the team. Go back and read them yourself if you have doubts *shrug*.

I know what the first 3 issues of Avengers does. I just suggested that you read Casey’s mini series to get a more in depth and fleshed out view of what went down. That’s all.

[capandkirby]

I know what the first 3 issues of Avengers does. I just suggested that you read Casey’s mini series to get a more in depth and fleshed out view of what went down. That’s all.

Okay. Thanks for the rec.

[PCN24454]

I didn’t say it. I specifically used the term unorganized. In response to PCN24454‘s first quote that I included in this post. I actually don’t like to character bash as I feel that every character means something to someone, so this entire time I’ve been trying to be pretty diplomatic considering *my* favorite character was attacked. And those first three issues of Avengers DID highlight why Steve’s practical personality was a good and needed addition to the team. Go back and read them yourself if you have doubts *shrug*.

Did he stop the Hulk from leaving?

/s

I wasn't talking about the OG Avengers comic at the time and honestly, it more supports what I'm talking about. Basically, he comes in out of nowhere and takes over the team. While his motives and reputation are great, he's still a stranger to them, and they're strangers to him.

[Alan2099]

I wasn't talking about the OG Avengers comic at the time and honestly, it more supports what I'm talking about. Basically, he comes in out of nowhere and takes over the team. While his motives and reputation are great, he's still a stranger to them, and they're strangers to him.

That wasn't what happened either.

The Avengers still maintained a rotating chairman's position, meaning that the team leader basically changed every mission.

Captain America didn't get the leadership position until the Kooky Quartet phase, when all the member that had been on the team since the beginning left and put him in charge.

[capandkirby]

That wasn't what happened either.

The Avengers still maintained a rotating chairman's position, meaning that the team leader basically changed every mission.

Captain America didn't get the leadership position until the Kooky Quartet phase, when all the member that had been on the team since the beginning left and put him in charge.

Exactly. Thank you! And the reason that Cap was put in charge of the Kooky Quartet was because even though he was the new guy, he was the most senior Avenger left. The others, simultaneously, decided to take some time off.

“We know you just got here and were just thawed and everything, and I’m sure that was traumatic and all, but here are three recently reformed criminals as your new team. Do your best! Okay, good luck, bye!”

[Agent Z]

The Illuminati were right to shoot the Hulk into space.

Far too many people focus on the "do you know what NASCAR is" part of Sally Floyd's stupid speech and not the fact that she supports the Clean Wehrmacht myth.