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  1. #346
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    The Illuminati were 100% justified in shooting the Hulk into space.

  2. #347
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The Illuminati were 100% justified in shooting the Hulk into space.
    I said the same thing when it happened and quite a few posters didn't care for that opinion lol. I stand by it though.
    " There are individuals out there who are so intent on violent engagement with me that they will go to great lengths to engineer one...including the murder of those close to me. And everything I've come to believe about myself and my so called evolution...they completely disregard. They just don't get it. They're fighting against an inevitable future, but they just don't realize I'm already there...I Am The Future.." TONY STARK

  3. #348
    Incredible Member ETMike1988's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The Illuminati were 100% justified in shooting the Hulk into space.
    What if the Illuminati send the Hulk to an other planet but without the explosion that killed Hulk wife!?
    And then as of the advice of said wife, Hulk will wage war against the humans and World War Hulk happen!?

  4. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by ETMike1988 View Post
    What if the Illuminati send the Hulk to an other planet but without the explosion that killed Hulk wife!?
    They didn't cause the explosion. The Red King's loyalists. If he'd gone to the planet they wanted to send him to, no explosion would happen. He wasn't supposed to be on Sakaar.

  5. #350
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I mean, I can kind of see the Illuminati's point even if Hulk probably does as much good as he does bad, and things would've been fine if not for the explosion...but anyone could probably see that, inevitably, doing something like that to The Hulk never ends well.

  6. #351
    Incredible Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Historically, his power comes from three sources, and two of them could indeed be 'taken away.' He's got a reserve of personal power, that recharges slowly, and can be depleted through overuse, or drained or blocked by external forces. He's got invocations of extradimensional forces and entities like Cytorrak, Watoomb, Ikonn, etc. which can also be blocked, or even denied by those self-same extradimensional entities (and who indeed seem to have sworn some sort of binding pact to always respond to the calls of the Sorcerer Supreme, so if the title changed hands, Cytorrak would let the name holder of the title tap his power just as readily, I'd imagine). And then he's got trained power, which resembles telepathy and telekinesis and astral projection used by mutants or other 'trained psychics' like Moondragon, Mantis or Bob the Uranian. *Those* powers should remain his, even if his personal power is drained away and his extradimensional long-distance plan is blacklisted (or rerouted to go to Blade's cellphone instead).

    So, even if he 'lost his mojo,' and somebody else was wearing his Sorcerer Supreme hat, he should still have tricks similar to those used by non-mage psychics like Jean Grey or Moondragon (if not necessarily at their level, as they are pretty darn top notch at those niches...), and indeed might come across as a mystic similar to how Dr. Druid worked back in the day, with mentalism and hypnotism and levitation, but no 'Shields of the Seraphim' or 'Winds of Watoomb'.
    I get what you're saying, but I still think blocking access to a source of power isn't the same as character X "taking" power from character Y. Character X needs to gain access themselves. In the old classic Strange series from the 70s, there's an arc where Dormammu and Umar are essentially trying to steal the mystical might of Strange away from him by gaining access to and stealing his knowledge. He has to hide his knowledge away in the realm of Aggamotto and he even loses the ability to fly as he no longer has the will or know-how to make the Cloak of Levitation work. Really interesting stuff, Strange is so underrated.

    Also, on the topic of Strange losing his title as Sorcerer Supreme, is it as bad at this point, or worse than Thor losing or having others wield Mjolnir?

  7. #352
    Incredible Member Doombot's Avatar
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    If they were justified in shooting Hulk into space, why not shoot Wolverine out as well? Honestly who's murdered more people? You seemingly can't kill either of these men, so who's actually the more dangerous one to humans?

  8. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The Illuminati were 100% justified in shooting the Hulk into space.
    The Illuminati were 100% justified in everything they did. From sending Hulk into space, keeping the incursions too themselves (not like anyone else could of done anything about it, except Doom ofcourse and he did) and to mind wiping Captain America. The Illuminati gets irrational hate, it's as if people don't understand what was at stake, no one in that group has to apologize for anything. In fact I would like them to secretly reform maybe with some new members replacing unavailable old ones. Panther, Strange, maybe Reed after what Xavier did to him, Fury is back so he's candidate and two or three others. In these current times the MU needs a group like this. With all these world ending events happening frequently, the emergence of the nation of Krakoa and other factors this group needs to be a presence working behind the scenes to safeguard the world.

  9. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    I get what you're saying, but I still think blocking access to a source of power isn't the same as character X "taking" power from character Y. Character X needs to gain access themselves. In the old classic Strange series from the 70s, there's an arc where Dormammu and Umar are essentially trying to steal the mystical might of Strange away from him by gaining access to and stealing his knowledge. He has to hide his knowledge away in the realm of Aggamotto and he even loses the ability to fly as he no longer has the will or know-how to make the Cloak of Levitation work. Really interesting stuff, Strange is so underrated.

    Also, on the topic of Strange losing his title as Sorcerer Supreme, is it as bad at this point, or worse than Thor losing or having others wield Mjolnir?
    Oh, super bad. I'm so over it. Even the first time, with Doctor Voodoo getting the role, they show a bunch of people being considered for the role, and some of them, like Voodoo and Hellstrom, had been generally dudes with magical super-powers, and not actual *spellcasters,* and there was Doom, who, for decades, has been a technologist who knows that magic exists, but does crap all for actual spellcasting (that's changed in recent years, but at the time, it was out of left field, I thought). It just felt cheap, especially when there were plenty of 'magic-users' like Jennifer Kale and Clea running around who might actually have fit the bill.

    That said, I don't really love the whole Sorcerer Supreme thing anyway, since Dr. Strange barely ever seems to be doing anything I'd expect a Sorcerer Supreme to do. He's always on the backfoot, which is fine, narratively, for a superhero, but not for some sort of universal guardian. The needs of dramatic storytelling end up making him look flat out terrible at his job. Ideally, a Sorcerer Supreme should be an 'NPC,' off in the background, alerting more direct agents as to upcoming threats and coordinating and organizing people like Hellstrom and Wiccan and Voodoo and Jennifer Kale and Blade and Ghost Rider and Elsa Bloodstone and Nico Minoru and the reformed Salem's Seven to be the boots on the ground of impending magical scruffles. With the formation of Strange Academy, I feel like we are *finally* seeing Strange get his hand into the actual job he's had for decades. (Similarly, the MCU version similarly seems to not be doing a tenth what the Ancient One was doing as Sorcerer Supreme. Where's his entire training school of sorcerers to defend the three sanctums? The Ancient One didn't have *time* to hang out in New York. She had Masters to handle the three sanctums, and an actual job of her own!)

    Ditto for various super-characters who are also rulers or CEOs. Has any ruler of Wakanda or Attilan or Atlantis ever gotten their country blown up as much as T'challa, Blackagar or Namor? If you compare their rules to every other ruler, ever, they kind of suck the hardest, and it's not really their fault at all, they are just, as the saying goes, 'cursed to live in interesting times.' The story needs to go on, and on, and on, and threatening Attilan is cheap drama, so it got to sit in place for 10,000 years, safe as a mouse in a house, and then Blackagar comes along and WE NEED DRAMA! So it gets moved, and moved, and moved again, blown up, he gets overthrown by Maximus *three times?*, replaced by Medusa, back to Blackagar, oh, he's dead, wait, he's back. My goodness, those poor Inhumans, they're like, 'can we have the despot you overthrew back, 'cause I'm about sick of all this drama...' No wonder half the city keeps backing those Maximus usurpations!

    The narrative need for drama, and the idea that threatening the country or nation of the hero is the way to get it, and the tendency to retell the same darn story every time a new writer comes along, combine to result in Stark International seeming like the worst-run company ever (how many times has it been bought out?), etc. and that's not really fair to the characters (who aren't real, so whatev) or their fans (who are, and maybe wouldn't mind if Thor or Namor or whomever seemed even remotely *competent* at running Asgard, Atlantis, etc., or, better still, could hand the job off to someone else and *GO BE A SUPERHERO* full-time).

  10. #355
    Mighty Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    The stage when mutants were on verge of extinction was one of the most exciting times for the X-Men.
    A lot of people didnít like the militaristic style. I was not one of them.

  11. #356
    Fantastic Member Grapeweasel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    If they were justified in shooting Hulk into space, why not shoot Wolverine out as well? Honestly who's murdered more people? You seemingly can't kill either of these men, so who's actually the more dangerous one to humans?

    I think you just gave them an idea: Planet Wolverine.

    Followed by Planet Punisher, Planet Deadpool, Planet Carnage......

  12. #357
    Elektra Natchios vitaminbee's Avatar
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    I truly hate the space aspect of the X-Men. Any storyline that involves it just makes my eyes glaze over.

    I didn't mind House of M and what it did with Mutants and Wanda. Could it have been done better, obviously, but it felt like the Marvel Universe had more mutants than non-mutants at that point and needed a shift. I think it would have been better if they handled Wanda better though.

    I don't get the whole Mike Murdock/Matt Murdock twin thing and I don't think it's all that interesting.

    I can't stand Morbius. He seems so out of place with Spider-Man

  13. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeweasel View Post
    I think you just gave them an idea: Planet Wolverine.

    Followed by Planet Punisher, Planet Deadpool, Planet Carnage......
    Wolverine doesn’t need more kids he doesn’t take care of

  14. #359
    Mighty Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeweasel View Post
    I think you just gave them an idea: Planet Wolverine.

    Followed by Planet Punisher, Planet Deadpool, Planet Carnage......
    I’m very surprised nothing like this ever happened. Especially seeing as the “Old Man...” thing took off

  15. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeweasel View Post
    I think you just gave them an idea: Planet Wolverine.

    Followed by Planet Punisher, Planet Deadpool, Planet Carnage......
    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    I’m very surprised nothing like this ever happened. Especially seeing as the “Old Man...” thing took off
    Thanks folks. You probably just energized a creatively bankrupt writer's pitch for Marvel's Next Event.

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