Your Marvel-Only Controversial Opinions (2020...)

[danielsan52]

No Jessica Drew movie! I'm afraid MCU will eff everything up and then the comics will adapt to a movie origin and costume....

[Michael Watkins]

No Jessica Drew movie! I'm afraid MCU will eff everything up and then the comics will adapt to a movie origin and costume....

How can it be worse than bendis’ changes? He gave her breast implants.

[Michael Watkins]

Kang the Conqueror should be the next MCU big bad, if not a female villain.

[Michael Watkins]

Malcolm X used to say (and I paraphrase) that the only reason his teachings and the teachings of Elijah Muhammad (the then leader of the Nation of Islam) were framed as teaching violence or hate for white people was because of guilt and hypocrisy. That is, white people felt guilt for all the atrocities committed to black people, but they didn't know how to confront it. So, whenever a black man like Malcolm X or Elijah Muhammad spoke about all these atrocities openly, passionately and without sugarcoating it, their reaction was to call it hate speech or say it was radical. This is how Malcolm X was painted as the violent Civil Rights activist, even though he was neither violent nor actually supported the Civil Rights movement (because he didn't support integration). The end goal of Malcolm's teachings was complete separation between black and white people, not supremacy or revenge. That is what Magneto wants.

If anything, Xavier is some kind of combination of what Lee and Kirby thought what MLK and Malcolm were about, considering he gathered a bunch of mutants in one place and taught them how to defend themselves. Not to mention the Professor X moniker (as Malcolm was sometimes referred to as Mr X) and the two-fingers-to-the-temple pose when using his telepathy powers which was Malcolm's signature habit at the time. Magneto on the other hand is just a supremacist and a terrorist.

Eh. Your comments about Malcolm can’t be disputed. But Magneto has played several roles in the books. It would be dismissive to boil it down to supremacist and terrorist. You could find a number of people in the black community who feel as he does about a system of oppression. They simply lack the power to bend metal. Magneto, since the mid aughts, generally attacks human terrorists. He’s the Punisher but narrowed the war to threats against mutantkind (who are generally human). He’d still murder a mutant who proved themselves to be a threat to mutants. There’s really not a real world equivalent. Because it’s rare that an out group has the power to fight back.

He definitely sounds like a supremacist until you see what he’s up against. This isn’t some Spanish conqueror meeting a native and deciding that they are subhuman. This is a someone living on a reservation looking dismissively at the descendants of the people who drove his people onto reservations. More to the point, this is someone who was around to see it all go down. A lot of humans see mutants as animals who need to be controlled or put down. And others just see their accomplishments as illegitimate or their abilities as somehow unrelated to who they are (removable). In that sense, Magneto can’t even be considered a racist. He’s reacting defensively to a society that has deemed him a second class citizen. I will leave the Holocaust out of the discussion.

[Michael Watkins]

I actually think being married and having a small child makes him more interesting. There's a lot the right writer could do with that.

Sure. Just won’t be anything that I want to read. They really are an awful couple. And Luke was so much cooler pre-Jones. He deserved to be brought into the Avengers on his own merits instead of being used as a vehicle for bendis’ pet character dominating the book. You’ll dispute this. But I will remind everyone that bendis had the Avengers personally apologize to Jessica Jones. He stole Jessica Drew’s relationship with Carol Danvers and gave it to Jones. He gave her a connection to Jean Grey. He gave her a connection to Peter Parker. He gave her a connection to SHIELD. He gave her a connection to Daredevil. He wrote a What If that made her the savior of the Avengers and Steve Rogers’ bride. He lowered Cage to make him into her hubby. But this was never about him or a black perspective being added to the Avengers. Zero of the promised activism. Luke was a property owner. But they had him buy the mansion in the most condescending paternalistic fashion possible just so they could set up Jessica Jones telling the Avengers to get out of her house. Luke deserved better.

[Blind Wedjat]

Eh. Your comments about Malcolm can’t be disputed. But Magneto has played several roles in the books. It would be dismissive to boil it down to supremacist and terrorist. You could find a number of people in the black community who feel as he does about a system of oppression. They simply lack the power to bend metal. Magneto, since the mid aughts, generally attacks human terrorists. He’s the Punisher but narrowed the war to threats against mutantkind (who are generally human). He’d still murder a mutant who proved themselves to be a threat to mutants. There’s really not a real world equivalent. Because it’s rare that an out group has the power to fight back.

He definitely sounds like a supremacist until you see what he’s up against. This isn’t some Spanish conqueror meeting a native and deciding that they are subhuman. This is a someone living on a reservation looking dismissively at the descendants of the people who drove his people onto reservations. More to the point, this is someone who was around to see it all go down. A lot of humans see mutants as animals who need to be controlled or put down. And others just see their accomplishments as illegitimate or their abilities as somehow unrelated to who they are (removable). In that sense, Magneto can’t even be considered a racist. He’s reacting defensively to a society that has deemed him a second class citizen. I will leave the Holocaust out of the discussion.

I'm aware of all of this. My point is, the comparison of Magneto to Malcolm X is usually to paint Malcolm as a violent radical. I understand Magneto has depth of character (which came a little later after he was created if I'm correct), nor am I denying that he has faced violent bigotry. However, the end goal for Magneto usually is retaliation and revenge, and sometimes supremacy, no? As recent as HoX he declared mutants were the new gods of humans. I'm aware of black supremacists existing and there are black people who think the way Magneto. Malcolm X was not one of those people. That's my point.

If it came across as I have a problem with Magneto the character, I don't. I have no problems with him. I just have a problem with him being associated with Malcolm X. The media has done the same thing with MCU Killmonger too which is still wrong.

[Alan2099]

Magneto was a guy that was a victim of nazis because he wasn't "the Master Race" and he grew up to be a guy that considers himself the master race and anyone who isn't is beneath him.

It's easy to say he's a guy that is fighting to free mutants from oppression, but he's the first MAJOR mutant that people ever knew about and he launched his career attacking humans and declaring himself superior. Magneto is the worst thing that's ever happened to mutants, even worse than Sentinels.

[DrNewGod]

... I understand Magneto has depth of character (which came a little later after he was created if I'm correct), nor am I denying that he has faced violent bigotry. However, the end goal for Magneto usually is retaliation and revenge, and sometimes supremacy, no? As recent as HoX he declared mutants were the new gods of humans. I'm aware of black supremacists existing and there are black people who think the way Magneto. Malcolm X was not one of those people. That's my point... I just have a problem with him being associated with Malcolm X. The media has done the same thing with MCU Killmonger too which is still wrong.

Magneto didn't take on any nuance at all until 15 years after his creation. He was created as paper thin world-beater, obsessed with his own superiority. There was no reason to his attitudes until Claremont begin filling it in back in 1978 (and he did a marvelous job of it).

As to the MLK/Malcolm X comparisons: I'm not sure that's what Lee and Kirby were actually aiming at back in 1963. Lee has often said that's what they were doing, but all of the interviews I'm aware of were well after the O5 X-Men's original run, and Lee had a tendency to remember things in an ... interesting ... manner. Does anybody have a clear idea of when that MLK/Professor X v. Malcolm X/Magneto comparison began? The first time I was conscious of hearing it was during the run up to the first Fox fillm, back in 2000.

[Papa Moai]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that it was Claremont who gave Magneto depth and made his point of view somewhat sympathetic. And Stan Lee just acted like that was the idea all along.

[Michael Watkins]

I'm aware of all of this. My point is, the comparison of Magneto to Malcolm X is usually to paint Malcolm as a violent radical. I understand Magneto has depth of character (which came a little later after he was created if I'm correct), nor am I denying that he has faced violent bigotry. However, the end goal for Magneto usually is retaliation and revenge, and sometimes supremacy, no? As recent as HoX he declared mutants were the new gods of humans. I'm aware of black supremacists existing and there are black people who think the way Magneto. Malcolm X was not one of those people. That's my point.

If it came across as I have a problem with Magneto the character, I don't. I have no problems with him. I just have a problem with him being associated with Malcolm X. The media has done the same thing with MCU Killmonger too which is still wrong.

Yeah. That’s why I started out by saying you were right about Malcolm X. It’s pointless to compare the two.

[Blind Wedjat]

Magneto didn't take on any nuance at all until 15 years after his creation. He was created as paper thin world-beater, obsessed with his own superiority. There was no reason to his attitudes until Claremont begin filling it in back in 1978 (and he did a marvelous job of it).

As to the MLK/Malcolm X comparisons: I'm not sure that's what Lee and Kirby were actually aiming at back in 1963. Lee has often said that's what they were doing, but all of the interviews I'm aware of were well after the O5 X-Men's original run, and Lee had a tendency to remember things in an ... interesting ... manner. Does anybody have a clear idea of when that MLK/Professor X v. Malcolm X/Magneto comparison began? The first time I was conscious of hearing it was during the run up to the first Fox fillm, back in 2000.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that it was Claremont who gave Magneto depth and made his point of view somewhat sympathetic. And Stan Lee just acted like that was the idea all along.

You might be right about this, especially regarding the talk of the first film. That's one of the first times I heard it too. Especially because the metaphor was used quite overtly in that film and Magneto even says "by any means necessary" at one point.

Yeah. That’s why I started out by saying you were right about Malcolm X. It’s pointless to compare the two.

Ah no worries then.

[Michael Watkins]

Magneto was a guy that was a victim of nazis because he wasn't "the Master Race" and he grew up to be a guy that considers himself the master race and anyone who isn't is beneath him.

You’re confusing him with Doctor Doom or Apocalypse. Magneto actually has different sides to his character. He didn’t care that Luna was human. He’s demonstrated humility and the ability to work with humans in the past. His prejudice was born from experience.

It's easy to say he's a guy that is fighting to free mutants from oppression, but he's the first MAJOR mutant that people ever knew about and he launched his career attacking humans and declaring himself superior. Magneto is the worst thing that's ever happened to mutants, even worse than Sentinels.

It’s easier and lazier to just reduce the character to a cliche about the victim becoming the oppressor. He’s not fighting to free mutants. He’s fighting so they don’t have to risk their necks. Might want to bone up on your knowledge of sentinels. Ned Buckman wasn’t concerned with Magneto. Funding the construction of giant metal robots seems kind of a stupid way to prepare for him. And the government should have been aware of mutants since they experimented on them before Magneto was an adult. Weapon Plus ring a bell? He launched his career by starting a family with a human. He also volunteered at a hospital for fellow survivors. And then there’s him hunting nazis for human governments. They turned on him. You can say that they radicalized him as well. He just went from hunting nazis to killing anti-mutant supremacists (and attempting nuclear disarmament).

[DrNewGod]

...As to the MLK/Malcolm X comparisons: I'm not sure that's what Lee and Kirby were actually aiming at back in 1963. Lee has often said that's what they were doing, but all of the interviews I'm aware of were well after the O5 X-Men's original run, and Lee had a tendency to remember things in an ... interesting ... manner. Does anybody have a clear idea of when that MLK/Professor X v. Malcolm X/Magneto comparison began? The first time I was conscious of hearing it was during the run up to the first Fox fillm, back in 2000.

You might be right about this, especially regarding the talk of the first film. That's one of the first times I heard it too. Especially because the metaphor was used quite overtly in that film and Magneto even says "by any means necessary" at one point..

Given Kirby and Lee's ethic origins, I've sometimes wondered if the real influence on The X-Men and Magneto were The Haganah and The Irgun. Both did some rough stuff in Palestine during the Zionist movement of the 1940s, but the Haganah was more likely to build schools and communities, while the Irgun were more likely to engage in straight up terrorism. They also differed starkly in their view of coexistence with the extant Palestinian population.

[Michael Watkins]

Given Kirby and Lee's ethic origins, I've sometimes wondered if the real influence on The X-Men and Magneto were The Haganah and The Irgun. Both did some rough stuff in Palestine during the Zionist movement of the 1940s, but the Haganah was more likely to build schools and communities, while the Irgun were more likely to engage in straight up terrorism. They also differed starkly in their view of coexistence with the extant Palestinian population.

I read Lee’s Rolling Stone interview. He wasn’t thinking that deep. It’s why I think of Claremont as the father of the x-verse. There were only good mutants and bad mutants before then.

[whitecrown]

No Jessica Drew movie! I'm afraid MCU will eff everything up and then the comics will adapt to a movie origin and costume....

The alternative is that she's replaced with Spider-Gwen in the general public and Jessica returns to obscurity...again.