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  1. #46
    Spectacular Member primenumber101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    The foundation of Doctor Octopus is that he's a bad guy, a megalomaniac and an evil person. That's who he is. That can't really be changed. A character created to be a villain and successful as one cannot be compared to the main character and supporting cast.

    And Doctor Octopus is still widely known as a villain. Look at the recent video by Seth Meyers at around 08:10:


    "Hollywood has convinced us that evil people are all geniuses... Some of them hold Ph.Ds like Doctor No, Doctor Doom, Doctor Octopus".

    That's how the civilians see Ock.
    I think the villain's redemption arc is depends on rather is villain REALLY deserved to have redemption arc by showing him or her regretting their action and willingly to atone it and the writer's skill supporting it. Otherwise, it can come off as karma Houdini or writers embellishing the villains from their evil deeds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I won't derail this thread further. Here is my last word on the subject (don't expect a reply) -
    No one cares, dude.

  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by primenumber101 View Post
    ....no one cares, dude.
    please delete post
    Last edited by Celgress; 06-17-2020 at 10:30 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  3. #48
    Spectacular Member Nero's Avatar
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    Norman coming back was inevitable. Didn't care for the "Red Goblin", because it didn't fit Norman. It was an extra ingredient that wasn't needed, it practically screams "If it ain't broke".

    Classic Green Goblin is the peanut butter to Norman's jelly. I'm going to assume Norman coming back also means his memories of Spider-Man being Peter Parker is also coming back which is something else that never should have been altered with in the first place. The personal animosity between Norman and Peter is what made Norman the archenemy of Spider-Man.

    Otto coming back as his original criminal megalomaniac self was also inevitable and quite frankly I welcome it with open arms. Otto's too big of a player in the Spider-Man rogues gallery (essentially he's Spider-Man second greatest foe) to be sidelined in a role that never fit him in the first place. I'm all for letting a classic villain be a classic villain.

  4. #49
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Back to the topic at hand:

    I'm excited for this issue to finally give us that confrontation between Peter, Norman, and whoever Kindred turns out to be.
    The Amazing, Spectacular, Sensational Web-Slinger!

  5. #50
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nero View Post
    Norman coming back was inevitable. Didn't care for the "Red Goblin", because it didn't fit Norman. It was an extra ingredient that wasn't needed, it practically screams "If it ain't broke.....
    I agree that Green Goblin is best. I never cared for the Red Goblin gimmick. Sorry, Dan, I loved a lot of your stuff, but a GB-Carnage mash-up seemed excessive, unnecessary, and, frankly, corny (and not in a good way like Living Brain).
    Last edited by Celgress; 06-18-2020 at 01:14 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    The foundation of Doctor Octopus is that he's a bad guy, a megalomaniac and an evil person. That's who he is. That can't really be changed. A character created to be a villain and successful as one cannot be compared to the main character and supporting cast.

    And Doctor Octopus is still widely known as a villain. Look at the recent video by Seth Meyers at around 08:10:


    "Hollywood has convinced us that evil people are all geniuses... Some of them hold Ph.Ds like Doctor No, Doctor Doom, Doctor Octopus".

    That's how the civilians see Ock.
    This has went on long before Hollywood. Dr. Jeckyl. Dr. Frankenstein Professor Moriarity to name a few. But almost anyone can change ( Hitler being an obvious exception). Otto does not have to be Peter Parker, but he could be Frank Castle ( an anti-hero), but that would involve character growth, which is obviously not happening

  7. #52
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    This has went on long before Hollywood. Dr. Jeckyl. Dr. Frankenstein Professor Moriarity to name a few. But almost anyone can change ( Hitler being an obvious exception). Otto does not have to be Peter Parker, but he could be Frank Castle ( an anti-hero), but that would involve character growth, which is obviously not happening
    I'm sorry; what did you say about Hitler changing??? I'm not even Jewish and that feels insulting.
    The Amazing, Spectacular, Sensational Web-Slinger!

  8. #53
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nero View Post
    Norman coming back was inevitable. Didn't care for the "Red Goblin", because it didn't fit Norman. It was an extra ingredient that wasn't needed, it practically screams "If it ain't broke".

    Classic Green Goblin is the peanut butter to Norman's jelly. I'm going to assume Norman coming back also means his memories of Spider-Man being Peter Parker is also coming back which is something else that never should have been altered with in the first place. The personal animosity between Norman and Peter is what made Norman the archenemy of Spider-Man.

    Otto coming back as his original criminal megalomaniac self was also inevitable and quite frankly I welcome it with open arms. Otto's too big of a player in the Spider-Man rogues gallery (essentially he's Spider-Man second greatest foe) to be sidelined in a role that never fit him in the first place. I'm all for letting a classic villain be a classic villain.
    The Red Goblin arc actually did kick off with Norman rediscovering Spider-Man's true identity and using that along with the Carnage symbiote's powers to terrorize him and his loved ones like never before. Of course, it ended with the Carnage symbiote dying in a fiery explosion after Spider-Man goaded Norman into separating from it, which also fried his brain so badly when it tried to re-bond at the last minute that for a good while, Norman thought he was Cletus Kasady and Spider-Man was Norman Osborn. Then Absolute Carnage happened, with the real Cletus Kasady, revived in service to the symbiote god Knull, using Norman-Cletus as a pawn, only for Norman to disappear after being seemingly taken down by Eddie Brock's son Dylan and his mysterious symbiote-controlling powers and resurface in the Ravencroft miniseries, back to his normal diabolical self and walking free because he blamed all his (recent) evil acts on being controlled by the Carnage symbiote. All that said, I am looking forward to Peter and Norman confronting each other again.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  9. #54
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    I think if I were to choose the variants, I'm a sucker for Mark Bagley Spidey so Im gonna get that. Its not shown unlike the other variants. Im very curious what it look like. athough Ryan cover looks great.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    I'm sorry; what did you say about Hitler changing??? I'm not even Jewish and that feels insulting.
    I said there is no redemption for certain people and Hitler is an obvious example. That was in NO way meant as a compliment to that monster. I can substitute Charles Manson or Saddam Hussein if that makes you feel better. They are all monsters.

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