Well, this is disappointing...

[Coco Loco]

DC and MARVEL take heed.

With the recent allegations of sexual misconduct by members of the Riverdale cast proving to be false...it's imperative that thorough investigations are made before deciding to "cancel" your creatives. Especially when those allegations surface on Twitter and other social media.
You have an accusation against someone, go through the proper, legal channels, file a report and present that as evidence and proof of your sincere attempt at righting a wrong. And just in case some of you don't know...Twitter and Social Media are most certainly not proper, legal channels.

Companies should not rely on what amounts to "here-say" and spurious accusations on twitter, of all places, because a statement of apology after the fact is worthless.

And those who are found guilty of committing libel should feel the full brunt of the law.

The lives and livelihoods of many innocent people can be and have been destroyed and the real criminals go free and true victims find no justice if there isn't full transparency across the board; and lack there-of certainly puts the Me Too Movement in a bad light by lessening the impact of their good and important work by the actions of these "victims". Yes, in quotation marks, because until a crime is proven and the accused is found guilty, you are an Accuser.

Really not sure what it is you are contemplating here. No one has been accused of a crime. There is no "legal process". There is no "proper, legal channel". There's not even an HR process, as no one involved is an employee of DC or Marvel. There are no "real criminals". There is no crime to be proven and no forum is which anyone would be found guilty. Various people have come forward and accused Ellis and Stewart, among others, or scummy behavior. Ellis more or less admitted to it.

The dangers of Trial by Twitter are fairly obvious, but the over-the-top hyperbole of some (e.g. the folks conflating this with "sexual abuse" or "grooming") are ultimately meaningless. If anything that was said about these folks is untrue, that likely will come out. If not - well, again, there's no crime. It's behavior that people (and companies) can decide how to feel about - but at least in Ellis' case, it is behavior that he has acknowledged and to which he has admitted. There's no need to clutch the pearls for him or his career - he will be fine.

And I think the empirical evidence is pretty clear that these types of allegations are very rarely made-up, especially when a plethora of "accusers" are telling the exact same story. For whatever that's worth.

Edit: Also - libel is a civil action, not criminal. No one will ever be "found guilty" of committing libel or be punished criminally for it.

[Devaishwarya]

What it comes down to is someone accusing someone else of misconduct, assault, abuse etc...on a public social media platform. And without any sort of verification those accused can and do lose their jobs, their reputations. And even if proven untrue can still be damaging. You do not know for certain they "will be fine".

Those found to be "guilty" of Libel or defamation of character or just plain lying should be held accountable.

Bottom line...it's imperative to conduct an investigation on these claims and accusations before certain decisions are made.

[phonogram12]

There's no need to clutch the pearls for him or his career - he will be fine.

And I think the empirical evidence is pretty clear that these types of allegations are very rarely made-up, especially when a plethora of "accusers" are telling the exact same story. For whatever that's worth.

Exactly. He's more or less confirmed the allegations against him and regardless of who decides to drop Ellis, the guy'll find work in his chosen profession. He's not the one we should be worrying about.

I also agree with the fact that a ridiculously low number of allegations like this are ever false. The whole #metoo movement was created because so many very real one's were ignored in the first place.

[Coco Loco]

What it comes down to is someone accusing someone else of misconduct, assault, abuse etc...on a public social media platform. And without any sort of verification those accused can and do lose their jobs, their reputations. And even if proven untrue can still be damaging. You do not know for certain they "will be fine".

Those found to be "guilty" of Libel or defamation of character or just plain lying should be held accountable.

Bottom line...it's imperative to conduct an investigation on these claims and accusations before certain decisions are made.

If you're looking for verification beyond fifty other women coming forward to tell the exact same story and Ellis admitting it's true, I don't know what to tell you. We don't really need Sherlock Holmes to crack this one.

[achilles]

What it comes down to is someone accusing someone else of misconduct, assault, abuse etc...on a public social media platform. And without any sort of verification those accused can and do lose their jobs, their reputations. And even if proven untrue can still be damaging. You do not know for certain they "will be fine".

Those found to be "guilty" of Libel or defamation of character or just plain lying should be held accountable.

Bottom line...it's imperative to conduct an investigation on these claims and accusations before certain decisions are made.

Well, yes, but you notice nobody does. It's the execution, followed by the trial. Not to defend anyone in particular...but as you say, pretty much anyone can say anything about anyone. It might be true, it might not be, but it should be actually investigated before action is taken. So it's good that actions that even a few years ago would have gone unnoticed are being brought to light, but people shouldn't just jump to conclusions without looking into specific allegations. If those allegations turn out to be true, by all means punish away. If not, still punish, but the false accuser.

[achilles]

If you're looking for verification beyond fifty other women coming forward to tell the exact same story and Ellis admitting it's true, I don't know what to tell you. We don't really need Sherlock Holmes to crack this one.

I believe he's referring to the process in general, rather than a specific case. There have been cases where the claims were either exaggerated, or just plain false. Ellis doesn't seem to fit that, but others might. Basically, anyone with a grudge, or anyone who just wants to be in the news can make a claim and ruin another person.

[Coco Loco]

Basically, anyone with a grudge, or anyone who just wants to be in the news can make a claim and ruin another person.

And yet, almost no one ever does.

Investigation... by who? Y'all keep talking about this like it's a criminal proceeding and there's going to be some sort of trial or courtroom proceeding at some point.

[achilles]

And yet, almost no one ever does.

Investigation... by who? Y'all keep talking about this like it's a criminal proceeding and there's going to be some sort of trial or courtroom proceeding at some point.

Some of these could be criminal offenses. Others...well, companies do a lot of their own investigating these days, or contract it out. If you can do a background check, you can look a little deeper.

I recall a case where a woman accused a comic I'd never heard of of harassment....for what turned out to be a case of bad, but consensual sex. Things like that happen. I'm not against bringing the hammer down on those who deserve it, but I do want there to be due process. Even if it only amounts to civil ramifications like losing your job or being blacklisted. Putting it another way, would you like to lose your job and be publicly shamed for something you didn't do? Without a chance to defend yourself, with your accuser's word being taken as gospel, and your's tossed aside? Just be sure is all I ask, be sure and fair to both sides. These are actions that can't be taken back, so before ruining someone's life, I think it behooves a civil society to be as certain as they can.

[Devaishwarya]

Some of these could be criminal offenses. Others...well, companies do a lot of their own investigating these days, or contract it out. If you can do a background check, you can look a little deeper.

I recall a case where a woman accused a comic I'd never heard of of harassment....for what turned out to be a case of bad, but consensual sex. Things like that happen. I'm not against bringing the hammer down on those who deserve it, but I do want there to be due process. Even if it only amounts to civil ramifications like losing your job or being blacklisted. Putting it another way, would you like to lose your job and be publicly shamed for something you didn't do? Without a chance to defend yourself, with your accuser's word being taken as gospel, and your's tossed aside? Just be sure is all I ask, be sure and fair to both sides. These are actions that can't be taken back, so before ruining someone's life, I think it behooves a civil society to be as certain as they can.

Thank you, achilles. 100% in agreement. Especially the underlined.

I was certainly referring to the overall process and its possible failing in the lack of investigations and verifiable evidence and the resulting harm that may occur.

In the case of the Riverdale accusations it was found out the person was lying so...investigations in a manner, can be done.

[Coco Loco]

Some of these could be criminal offenses. Others...well, companies do a lot of their own investigating these days, or contract it out. If you can do a background check, you can look a little deeper.

I recall a case where a woman accused a comic I'd never heard of of harassment....for what turned out to be a case of bad, but consensual sex. Things like that happen. I'm not against bringing the hammer down on those who deserve it, but I do want there to be due process. Even if it only amounts to civil ramifications like losing your job or being blacklisted. Putting it another way, would you like to lose your job and be publicly shamed for something you didn't do? Without a chance to defend yourself, with your accuser's word being taken as gospel, and your's tossed aside? Just be sure is all I ask, be sure and fair to both sides. These are actions that can't be taken back, so before ruining someone's life, I think it behooves a civil society to be as certain as they can.

Due process is, again, a criminal concept, and a US one at that. Nothing that Ellis or Stewart was accused of (at least AFAIK) was illegal. Just scummy. There's nothing there that would even form the basis of a civil action. Nor is there any basis for an investigation. What would that even mean? Would DC, or a proxy, call up these women and ask them questions about their past romantic relationships with someone who is not a DC employee? This isn't even at the level of an HR matter.

I think everyone is aware that, as they say "loose lips sink ships" aka gossip is bad. But I'm still not sure why, in a scenario where we have (a) bunch of people post on social media saying, in essence, that someone is a creeper womanizer, and then we go to (b) person in question goes "Yup. I am. I'm sorry", the next step is (c) "woah woah woah let's not rush to judgment sometimes people lie about this stuff!" Why is that where anyone's mind goes in a case where no one disputes what happened?

[Holt]

I think everyone is aware that, as they say "loose lips sink ships" aka gossip is bad. But I'm still not sure why, in a scenario where we have (a) bunch of people post on social media saying, in essence, that someone is a creeper womanizer, and then we go to (b) person in question goes "Yup. I am. I'm sorry", the next step is (c) "woah woah woah let's not rush to judgment sometimes people lie about this stuff!" Why is that where anyone's mind goes in a case where no one disputes what happened?

It's kind of insane.

[Devaishwarya]

Again...Using the outcome of initial example and context...ie the Riverdale story, I was commenting on the entire system and process...not the specific stories pertaining to Stewart and Ellis.

And yes...some people ,sick men and women) do lie about this stuff. They may be in a minority but they do exist (as with the Riverdale story) so there is precedent.

[Coco Loco]

Again...Using the outcome of initial example and context...ie the Riverdale story, I was commenting on the entire system and process...not the specific stories pertaining to Stewart and Ellis.

And yes...some people ,sick men and women) do lie about this stuff. They may be in a minority but they do exist (as with the Riverdale story) so there is precedent.

The tweets about the Riverdale cast made criminal charges - and were then deleted and revealed as a hoax within a few hours. Yes, sick people, sick joke. But again, those were criminal accusations from anonymous accounts. That "process" is by definition different from the Ellis/ Stewart situation. No one's life gets destroyed for being accused of being a womanizer on Twitter. This amounts to "some people said some stuff on the internet, and that stuff is true and unflattering." I promise you Ellis will be ok. If it turns out he's not, I owe you a Coke.

[achilles]

Due process is, again, a criminal concept, and a US one at that. Nothing that Ellis or Stewart was accused of (at least AFAIK) was illegal. Just scummy. There's nothing there that would even form the basis of a civil action. Nor is there any basis for an investigation. What would that even mean? Would DC, or a proxy, call up these women and ask them questions about their past romantic relationships with someone who is not a DC employee? This isn't even at the level of an HR matter.

I think everyone is aware that, as they say "loose lips sink ships" aka gossip is bad. But I'm still not sure why, in a scenario where we have (a) bunch of people post on social media saying, in essence, that someone is a creeper womanizer, and then we go to (b) person in question goes "Yup. I am. I'm sorry", the next step is (c) "woah woah woah let's not rush to judgment sometimes people lie about this stuff!" Why is that where anyone's mind goes in a case where no one disputes what happened?

Due process is also an ideal. Look at it this way, why is Jimmy Kimmel still allowed to do his show? I mean the guy is the poster child for...well, let's look at his record. While I'm not aware of any sexual assault allegations against him, the guy has done blackface on numerous occasions, had the most misogynist show in history, The Man Show, where the big draw was women jumping up and down on trampolines, imitated black comedians. By the same standards, he should have been cancelled long ago.

Or look at the Justin Bieber allegations. He's denied them, and asked the media to investigate. I'm not the guy's biggest fan, but I hope the media takes him up on the offer, regardless of the outcome. And while the allegations against those two you mention may not rise to criminal level, they may be actionable in a civil forum. Even if they aren't, that is most definitely an HR matter. And a firing offense, (though they probably are freelancers). And something that would make future employers be very careful. But again, that's not the point. Personally, I don't care what happens to Ellis or the other guy, and I wasn't talking about them. I was talking about the general trend to execute first, then maybe, possibly, look into the truth. But probably not.

We seem to be a society prone to panicky, rash action based on little to no information. Which isn't all that unusual. Greece and Rome did pretty much the same, (well, they were just a BIT harsher). Rash action, unsupported by actual justice does no one any good.

[Digifiend]

Now Jason Latour's been accused.
https://www.cbr.com/spider-gwen-co-c...ed-harassment/