Well, this is disappointing...

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Actually... I just typed it Warren Ellis accusations into goggle.


...buuut... honestly *shrug* its not enough for me to stop buying his books or anything like that. Unless he's been someone who's spoke out
against this type of thing before.

"Sleazy, Maniuplative... blah blah blah..." probably, but unless it got to "illegal" that's just some old dude in his desperation. More sad than infuriating really.

This is where I think I'm at too. Needs more info, but sounds more sleezy/sketchy than like he's an outright predator.

[bkart1978]

This is not just a handful of cases of jilted lovers and ex-girlfriends upset that Ellis unceremoniously dumped them. This is an older man using his position of power within the industry to get laid with dozens of young women who thought he was honestly interested in helping them.

But it's also an assumption to presuppose that he didn't actually have interest in helping them, just like he's helped countless creators (male and female) who didn't want to sleep with him and vice versa. He obviously loves the comics medium, and the arts, and seems to genuinely seek to boost careers in a way many other people in his position wouldn't take the time to do. He also clearly showed poor judgment with many of these artists - my read is that he thought that the artistic relationship and the physical relationship were separate things, when in reality that's an impossible distinction to maintain (particularly in the case that both relationships end simultaneously).

But I hate the jump right to calling him a "predator" as if he must have been plotting to "pretend" to like their art as a means of seducing them with the sole intention of discarding them - presumably with an evil cackle as he tossed them out onto the muddy street.

The hyperbole drives me crazy. He's a "monster" a "predator" a "bluebeard" (which implies a murderer, by the way). I saw one person ask "what does your daughter think of you now?!" People are tweeting at Netflix to cancel Castlevania because Ellis "sexually abuses teenagers" (whereas the accusers here, unlike the Cameron Stewart fiasco, seem to have been in their 20's, and seem to be more emotionally abused than sexually). His work is cancelled, his collaborators are forced to distance themselves from him (I'm guessing Injection is done based on Declan Shalvey's tweet today) and we all know that the Twitter mob will take down anyone who works with him in the future. Private e-mails of his are being posted for public consumption without his permission - a pretty gross violation in my opinion, but nobody seems to bat an eye at it in this case.

There are major problems in comics, and in male-female power balances in virtually every field. This is not debatable. I'm also not some awful Diversity In Comics stan. I hate those guys. But every once in a while I get a window into how they get created. Ellis is the bad guy here, but the overreaction is so over the top that it tricks me into feeling like he's a victim.

[Vic Vega]

There's a fairly large divide in my mind between possibly inappropriate relationships between older men and women at the age of consent and older men having relations with and/or grooming a minor.

It looks like the Comics Convention atmosphere, with Pros being confronted with dozens(hundreds? I haven't been to a Con in forever) of female fans was too much temptation for a bunch of people.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

This is where I think I'm at too. Needs more info, but sounds more sleezy/sketchy than like he's an outright predator.

Only the most sensationalist headlines are claiming Ellis is a predator. Even the women who are accusing Ellis aren't calling for him to be "cancelled". They just want people to know that what kind of a guy Ellis really is.

I'm sure Ellis will lose a few gigs from this, but, like I said, if he uses this as an opportunity for some genuine soul searching, he could come out of this a better man and a better writer.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

But it's also an assumption to presuppose that he didn't actually have interest in helping them, just like he's helped countless creators (male and female) who didn't want to sleep with him and vice versa. He obviously loves the comics medium, and the arts, and seems to genuinely seek to boost careers in a way many other people in his position wouldn't take the time to do. He also clearly showed poor judgment with many of these artists - my read is that he thought that the artistic relationship and the physical relationship were separate things, when in reality that's an impossible distinction to maintain (particularly in the case that both relationships end simultaneously).

But I hate the jump right to calling him a "predator" as if he must have been plotting to "pretend" to like their art as a means of seducing them with the sole intention of discarding them - presumably with an evil cackle as he tossed them out onto the muddy street.

The hyperbole drives me crazy. He's a "monster" a "predator" a "bluebeard" (which implies a murderer, by the way). I saw one person ask "what does your daughter think of you now?!" People are tweeting at Netflix to cancel Castlevania because Ellis "sexually abuses teenagers" (whereas the accusers here, unlike the Cameron Stewart fiasco, seem to have been in their 20's, and seem to be more emotionally abused than sexually). His work is cancelled, his collaborators are forced to distance themselves from him (I'm guessing Invasion is done based on Declan Shalvey's tweet today) and we all know that the Twitter mob will take down anyone who works with him in the future. Private e-mails of his are being posted for public consumption without his permission - a pretty gross violation in my opinion, but nobody seems to bat an eye at it in this case.

There are major problems in comics, and in male-female power balances in virtually every field. This is not debatable. I'm also not some awful Diversity In Comics stan. I hate those guys. But every once in a while I get a window into how they get created. Ellis is the bad guy here, but the overreaction is so over the top that it tricks me into feeling like he's a victim.

Since I, nor most of the people on this thread, haven't engaged in any of the hyperbole you're talking about, I'm not sure who you're addressing this to. As far as I can tell, everyone on this thread has been pretty measured about their reaction to this news.

[bkart1978]

Since I, nor most of the people on this thread, haven't engaged in any of the hyperbole you're talking about, I'm not sure who you're addressing this to. As far as I can tell, everyone on this thread has been pretty measured about their reaction to this news.

Sorry, I was only addressing your summation of the situation that "This is an older man using his position of power within the industry to get laid with dozens of young women who thought he was honestly interested in helping them." Which suggests he was NOT honestly interested in helping them, which I think is an unfair assumption to make at this point (and fuel to the fire that he targeted women or had malicious intent).

The rest was just me venting about the Twitter insanity that's unfolded around this.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Sorry, I was only addressing your summation of the situation that "This is an older man using his position of power within the industry to get laid with dozens of young women who thought he was honestly interested in helping them." Which suggests he was NOT honestly interested in helping them, which I think is an unfair assumption to make at this point (and fuel to the fire that he targeted women or had malicious intent).

The rest was just me venting about the Twitter insanity that's unfolded around this.

I totally get it. It's crazy out there and we sometimes just need to vent.

I think Ellis was interested in helping at least some of these girls and certainly used his prominence to do so. However, the sheer number of women involved all saying that he was the one who turned the conversation towards sex tends to discredit the idea that Ellis was simply trying to help in a lot of these cases.

[Midnight_v]

I have real indifference to what adults to in the bedroom. The argument that they were vulnerable, and or easily manipulated because of age, and pressure etc...
....but they are allowed to vote.... Or sign up with a recruiter to fight in a war or sign up for hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans. Or be tried for murder...
Adulthood means you are able to make decisions and accept responsibility. I don't like to deny people their agency because they're females and frankly regret is a part of life.
I'm not gonna stop trying buying Ellis's books and watching castlevania, since he didn't really do anything "wrong" outside of morality police notions.

He'll apologize and hide out and be back in no time

[scary harpy]

I have real indifference to what adults to in the bedroom.
...
I'm not gonna stop trying buying Ellis's books and watching castlevania, since he didn't really do anything "wrong" outside of morality police notions.

He'll apologize and hide out and be back in no time

Maybe. Maybe not.

I think Ellis was interested in helping at least some of these girls and certainly used his prominence to do so. However, the sheer number of women involved all saying that he was the one who turned the conversation towards sex tends to discredit the idea that Ellis was simply trying to help in a lot of these cases.

*this*

[Tony]

Warren Ellis had a series of relationships with adults over a couple of decades. Women have agency and get to make decisions for themselves. The women liked him and he liked them and as most relationships go they eventually ended. Ellis is not under obligation to continue a relationship as long as his partner wants to against his wishes, just as the women have no obligation to stay with Ellis when they become dissatisfied with the relationship. I don't know what happened to the people that think women in there 20s are helpless victims with no responsibility for their actions in mutual relationships.

Warren Ellis is not creepy, he is a man who enjoys dating women he is attracted to. Does his success somehow grant extra obligation to those he dates? We date the people around us. We do this because those are the people we meet. It's not hard to understand why he dated women he found attractive, that he had mutual interests with (Comics/Writing) because that's how humans make connections. Mutual interest, and proximity.

That this is somehow controversial is a sad statement of our current society.

I'm out of this thread as it's really not worth the time. Conflating two different creators as the article did was as foolish as this thread doing the same thing.

[Dred]

I don't get how people are ignoring the fact that Ellis himself has admitted to some serious wrongdoing in many of his previous relationships. There's no argument here.

[Ramsay Snow]

I don't get how people are ignoring the fact that Ellis himself has admitted to some serious wrongdoing in many of his previous relationships. There's no argument here.

Not really. You're reading what you want out of Ellis's statement. He said he's hurt people and is ashamed, which doesn't admit to serious wrongdoing. I could say that about past relationships of my own (As could anyone), does that mean we're all "predators" who have admitted to "serious wrongdoing."?

It was a politically correct public statement where he's choosing not to argue against the women he dated.

[Dred]

Who apologizes and admits shame for...not...doing bad things?

I'm not saying he's a sexual predator. He's likely just mentally abusive and manipulative based on, well, everything. And he's getting a bigger highlight because of how well known he is. I don't see a need to jump through hoops to justify ignoring the obvious.

It's fair to say we've all made mistakes, though Ellis seemed to do it in a sort of serial fashion. But please, continue to put words in my mouth.

[scary harpy]

I don't get how people are ignoring the fact that Ellis himself has admitted to some serious wrongdoing in many of his previous relationships. There's no argument here.

Some people are ignoring. Some always will. Others will not.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Kelly Sue, who has been friends with Ellis for at least a decade, actually talked to some of the women involved and is pretty convinced that Eliis behaved absolutely horribly beyond what a lot of people seem to think happened here. This is not a case of some consenting adults entering into a sexual relationship that ended badly.

Given that none of us here can say we know Ellis as well as Kelly Sue or have personally heard from any of these women what went down, I think we should all be willing to accept that Ellis isn't being railroaded here.

Ellis has been well paid for his work over the years. Even in the highly unlikely scenario that Ellis never works in comics or Hollywood again, he's not going to be made destitute by this scandal.