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  1. #31
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    If it could be established that Moira's reincarnation resets timelines across multiple universes (by the way wasnt this the case when Wanda wiped out the x-gene?) Then Moira would be an even bigger threat to the Phalanx and Dominion
    Last edited by GodfatherIV; 06-17-2020 at 05:59 PM.

  2. #32
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    I feel like doubting much about this "New" Moira, her powers and the status quo that has come with her.
    Perhaps it is because i see things too much from a narrative point of view, or because of the scale of what has been retconned (over 40 years of established lore) and how sudden it was introduced with next to no build up, that i'm unable to take everything introduced in HOX/POX at face value.

    Not to say that the various story/world elements introduced in the two mini series are meaningless. They very much seem like important building blocks for the core story ahead. Even if i'm not particular a fan of it i admit. But there is also the possibility that there are various curve balls involved in how "true" they turn out to be in the end.

    For example.
    Are Moira X and her "lifes" real or are they all someone's creation in universe?

    If she is real and her past lifes did exist, how does she know she is "rebooting" the entire universe just because she starts with all her old memories again?
    The idea that she actualy deletes and restarts an entire universe just by dying would make her one of the most powerfull beings in the marvel comics. Especialy when one takes into account just how much in the 616 universe exists because of time or dimensional travel.
    If each of her lifes resets those dimensional and time travel events, it would means she must reboot the multiverse itself with each of her deaths.
    Was there ever any being in marvel comics outside "The Writers" who could even do that?

    It would be more likely that her powers would involve unintentionaly creating a split timeline by sending her memories back to the past. While this would still make her a major x-factor in shaping the alternate histories she lived in, it also means that each of these "lifes" would still exist in the multiverse, including the 6th life where post-humans joined the Dominion.

    This would still fit what zinderel speculated. That Moira's actions could actualy be a reason for why the mutant vs. normal humans conflict escalated each time she was involved and led to the end of humanity in either form.

    However if she is such a powerfull being, then there is be the possibility that she actualy somehow added an element each time she "rebooted" the world that wasn't there before.
    So perhaps mutants actualy didn't exist in her first life and were created by her desire to understand why she had these weird powers.

    If she is a creation however. Who could have made her and for what purpose?
    A Dominion? Apocalypse? Xavier and Magneto themselves in some form of "plans within plans" kind of deal? There are various options on the table.

    In theory this entity wouldn't even need to "warp reality". Just make Xavier and Magneto believe the new history introduced in POX was real and it was all according to their plan when it is infact someone else's.

    But then there is indeed the question this topic raises. Why was the first life memory of this new Moira without mutants or at least a mutant vs. normal human conflict?

    Food for thought indeed.
    Last edited by Grunty; 06-17-2020 at 06:22 PM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    If nothing else, this just proves we NEED that Moira solo book...written by HiX-Man and illustrate by Silva and Larraz.
    Exactly this 100%.

    Or it would be a dream for this to be the subject along with the resurrection stuff in Xfactor. Ideally I'd love to see a change in lineups maybe combining some of the Hellions book with Xfactor for this with Moira. Give me: Moira X. Rachel. Polaris. Empath. Psylocke. Sinister. Havok. Scalphunter..... That'd be a helluva line up and clear direction for a book about Moira and the Resurrection protocols

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    I feel like doubting much about this "New" Moira, her powers and the status quo that has come with her.
    Perhaps it is because i see things too much from a narrative point of view, or because of the scale of what has been retconned (over 40 years of established lore) and how sudden it was introduced with next to no build up, that i'm unable to take everything introduced in HOX/POX at face value.

    Not to say that the various story/world elements introduced in the two mini series are meaningless. They very much seem like important building blocks for the core story ahead. Even if i'm not particular a fan of it i admit. But there is also the possibility that there are various curve balls involved in how "true" they turn out to be in the end.

    For example.
    Are Moira X and her "lifes" real or are they all someone's creation in universe?

    If she is real and her past lives did exist, how does she know she is "rebooting" the entire universe just because she starts with all her old memories again?
    The idea that she actualy deletes and restarts an entire universe just by dying would make her one of the most powerfull beings in the marvel comics. Especialy when one takes into account just how much in the 616 universe exists because of time or dimensional travel.
    If each of her lives resets those dimensional and time travel events, it would means she must reboot the multiverse itself with each of her deaths.
    Was there ever any being in marvel comics outside "The Writers" who could even do that?

    It would be more likely that her powers would involve unintentionaly creating a split timeline by sending her memories back to the past. While this would still make her a major x-factor in shaping the alternate histories she lived in, it also means that each of these "lives" would still exist in the multiverse, including the 6th life where post-humans joined the Dominion.

    However if she is such a powerfull being, then there is be the possibility that she actualy somehow added an element each time she "rebooted" the world that wasn't there before.
    So perhaps mutants actualy didn't exist in her first life and were created by her desire to understand why she had these weird powers.

    If she is a creation however. Who could have made her, for what purpose and how did they reshape reality with her existing?
    A Dominion? Apocalypse? Xavier and Magneto themselves in some form of "plans within plans" kind of deal? There are various options on the table.

    In theory this entity wouldn't even need to "warp reality". Just make Xavier and Magneto believe the new history introduced in POX was real and it was all according to their plan when it is infact someone else's.

    But then there is indeed the question this topic raises. Why was the first life memory of this new Moira without mutants or at least a mutant vs. normal human conflict?

    Food for thought indeed.
    Yeah it does raise plenty of questions like that. Maybe she's the Phoenix lol. I even wondered if she was born again to the same parents or not. But the idea that she affects the multiverse because of all the time travel and alternate universes based off of 616 is big possibility. Hickman needs to get to work explaining this one. It could be as you say all a ploy from someone like Cassandra Nova or something which would be equally huge or maybe Xavier is just evil all this time or Destiny is telling tales to affect things. Or maybe Moira is just a Beyonder
    Last edited by GodfatherIV; 06-17-2020 at 06:39 PM.

  5. #35
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    I've been thinking about this exact same theory, though I never tied it into the Dominion or the Phalanx because I just don't know much about them.

    And remember, that explanation from the blue guy could very well just be wrong. Same with Moira and how she thinks her powers work.

    My theory had always been that because of how ludicrously dangerous her powers are, that the constant unending hatred for mutants is universal backlash for causing such massive destruction over and over again. In the grand scheme of the universe, the struggle of a minority group on one planet really doesn't matter, but she's knowingly destroying it over and over again for the sake of mutantkind. I can imagine some of the grand and weird cosmic forces hating mutants for that. Essentially, Moira has unknowingly cursed the mutant race by committing such a horrific crime against the natural order and the extermination of all life over and over again, and that's why things appeared to get worse and worse as she kept dying.

    I started a fanfic about Hindu gods arriving on Earth because of the disruption to the cycle of life and death Moira was causing, but never really went anywhere with it.

  6. #36

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    As far as we know they failed in the lives even where she didn't have direct contact. So if your implying her mere existence is what causes problems for mutants then it is an inevitable part of destiny that i would chalk up to the one above all because Moira's powers reset everything so history can't move forward if she dies naturally which in every life is after her mutation develops.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Another thing that has occurred to me. The Phoenix is one of the forces opposing the Dominions.

    The White Hot Room also exists outside time and space.
    Meanwhile, Galactus is literally from a previous universe, one in which, presumably, the Dominions didn't exist. And he's pointed out as the other massive threat to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    As far as we know they failed in the lives even where she didn't have direct contact. So if your implying her mere existence is what causes problems for mutants then it is an inevitable part of destiny that i would chalk up to the one above all because Moira's powers reset everything so history can't move forward if she dies naturally which in every life is after her mutation develops.
    But here's the thing- we don't know. There's nothing about her first life that indicates that.

    I mean, maybe she wasn't affected directly, but if an Holocaust caused by giant robots happened in your lifetime, you would think that's important to mention.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    As far as we know they failed in the lives even where she didn't have direct contact. So if your implying her mere existence is what causes problems for mutants then it is an inevitable part of destiny that i would chalk up to the one above all because Moira's powers reset everything so history can't move forward if she dies naturally which in every life is after her mutation develops.
    Not necessarily. As the first post pointed out, Moira makes no mention of mutants in any way in her first life, which would be especially weird if Magneto was a thing and going on TV making terrorist proclamations. Her second life she died too soon to see what happened to the rest of the mutant race. In the lives she partnered with Xavier and Magneto at first, we know she died but not any of the details. It could have been a typical X-men adventure that put Xavier in the crosshairs, and not necessarily a 'fate of the mutant race' moment. And with Magneto, they tried to conquer the world and failed, with some mutants fighting against them. Again, not necessarily a 'fate of the mutant race' moment.

    Basically, in some of her lives, it was entirely possible for things to work out OK for the mutant race after the point she died.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Not necessarily. As the first post pointed out, Moira makes no mention of mutants in any way in her first life, which would be especially weird if Magneto was a thing and going on TV making terrorist proclamations. Her second life she died too soon to see what happened to the rest of the mutant race. In the lives she partnered with Xavier and Magneto at first, we know she died but not any of the details. It could have been a typical X-men adventure that put Xavier in the crosshairs, and not necessarily a 'fate of the mutant race' moment. And with Magneto, they tried to conquer the world and failed, with some mutants fighting against them. Again, not necessarily a 'fate of the mutant race' moment.

    Basically, in some of her lives, it was entirely possible for things to work out OK for the mutant race after the point she died.
    But even if Moira never meets mutants everything would still be reset to the beginning no matter what progress they make so the only way this works is if the story ends up telling us moira has to be killed before her mutation emerges and i just can't see a world where the story Marvel owned by disney is selling is killing a child before they become a mutant and ruin the world. I mean it could make sense but in the real world i just don't see it making sense. I mean what would disney/marvel be saying.
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  10. #40
    Mighty Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Well given that the story is telling us that she's destroying the entire universe, she's killing tons of babies every time!

    But in all seriousness, if the solution is Moira going away, there are tons of ways to do it without killing a baby. That's a non-issue.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Well given that the story is telling us that she's destroying the entire universe, she's killing tons of babies every time!

    But in all seriousness, if the solution is Moira going away, there are tons of ways to do it without killing a baby. That's a non-issue.
    So in essence moira would be punished for simply existing. Unless it's her choice of course. I agree there are ways but unless it's of her own doing Marvel/Disney will be sending the wrong message. Especially in these times.
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  12. #42
    Astonishing Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    “Moira never got involved in this timeline, so mutants aren’t hated and feared on a global scale, and never have been. There are pockets of humanity - small, but loud, sometimes well-funded - who are racist jerks, sure, but people don’t kill their own children for being mutants anymore. They never did in this timeline. Tell a better story.”
    I could definitely see Hickman's run ending with mutants being more integrated into society than they ever have before. Unfortunately the next writer would probably start off their run with some big incident that makes mutants universally hated and feared again.

  13. #43
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    Moira was under the impression she was a human in Life 1, so it's not unusual that she doesn't mention the fate of mutants during that lifetime, because it wouldn't have affected her life beyond maybe being a sad thing that happened. Like, if you were writing an autobiography you probably wouldn't mention the Rwandan genocide unless it directly affected you. Or because she thought she was human she may have even been influenced by media and bias into either not caring or thinking the eradication of mutants was an unfortunate necessity. At any rate, if mutants' annihilation was directly tied to Moira's existence I'm pretty sure Destiny would have seen that.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Milton View Post
    Moira was under the impression she was a human in Life 1, so it's not unusual that she doesn't mention the fate of mutants during that lifetime, because it wouldn't have affected her life beyond maybe being a sad thing that happened. Like, if you were writing an autobiography you probably wouldn't mention the Rwandan genocide unless it directly affected you. Or because she thought she was human she may have even been influenced by media and bias into either not caring or thinking the eradication of mutants was an unfortunate necessity. At any rate, if mutants' annihilation was directly tied to Moira's existence I'm pretty sure Destiny would have seen that.
    Destiny isn't completely omnicient. After all, she never foresaw that assassinating that politician would lead to Days of Future Past. And it still feels odd that even if she didn't care much about the potential genocide of mutants in her first life, she didn't know about it at all or mention it in her proceeding lives.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    I could definitely see Hickman's run ending with mutants being more integrated into society than they ever have before. Unfortunately the next writer would probably start off their run with some big incident that makes mutants universally hated and feared again.
    I think it might end differently with the mutants leaving Earth entirely and the repercussions that brings upon humans and mutants! Perhaps the natural balance of the Earth is disrupted after removing all the mutants because somehow their powers are linked to the very essence of the Earth!

    Obviously the mutants will gain new enemies wherever they flee to escape the genocidal humans of Earth.

    I could see the humans turning on each other in the absence of mutants or because they are afraid the mutants might return someday so in their paranoia they start tampering with their own genome!

    In the end though, I don't think mutants will ever be integrated because the human governments are controlled by the racists who hate mutants!
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