What if Moira herself is why mutants fail in every timeline...?

[WallStreeter]

Another thing that has occurred to me. The Phoenix is one of the forces opposing the Dominions.

The White Hot Room also exists outside time and space.

The Dominions have to act against Moira at some point. I’m pretty sure at that point the Phoenix gets involved. Perfect set up for Jean to become Phoenix again. In fact things to me are moving in that direction with the return of the Goblin Queen.

She was Marvel Girl in X-Factor after hatching out of a cocoon. Almost no trace of Phoenix about her into Inferno, where she absorbs the part of her that was Phoenix/Jean upon the death of the Goblin Queen.

[WallStreeter]

I think Moira was interesting before, yet she's more interesting and amazing now. Even if the retcon has a few continuity problems (as we could read her thoughts in old issues)... But I buy the retcon (and i love it) for the sake of the franchise. Anyway, some fans here have great theories about Moira.

Agreed. It also means the XMen, instead of having mutant father figures also have Moira as a mutant mother figure. And in a way they have Destiny as a mutant mother figure too, considering she had a previous Moira killed to stop her from going down the wrong path.

[jwatson]

You can come up with explanations, that is fine, and that is my point. I have no reason for this being written the way it is, no theory to support or disprove. It is just that it is clear that 'mutant' was not something that was a thing in life #1, which is very different from the rest of her lives.

It must be a thing if destiny said she can track her in any new life. Destiny is older than Moira meaning whether she knew about mutants or not they still existed and the history before Moira was born with namor still happened so I assume mutant hate would still exist.

[cranger]

It must be a thing if destiny said she can track her in any new life. Destiny is older than Moira meaning whether she knew about mutants or not they still existed and the history before Moira was born with namor still happened so I assume mutant hate would still exist.

Of for sure, I meant "thing" as in a "big thing that every knew about and was the center of many catastrophes", there is nothing concrete to suggest that mutants did not exist before Moira died and was reborn... although Hickman seems to be into the kind of crazy ideas that could include a reality that does somehow respond to Moira beyond just the time that her life intersects with.

[Omega Alpha]

Life #2 we see the first major instance of the observer effect, or the Moira Effect, in that Xavier most likely never made that statement on TV in life #1, but Moira met him in school in life #2 and now he goes public. When she hears him say mutant, that seems to be the first she hears of it, she goes to see him to find out more about what it means.

No, Moira only met Xavier in life #3.

#1- The original, no mutants; #2- The first time she manifests her powers, looks for explanations, sees Xavier talking, plane crashes; #3- Meets Xavier, becomes mutant hater, meets Destiny;

[Hulkout42]

During the pandemic, I went back and re-read HoX/PoX, because I am loving what Hickman is doing, and want to keep it fresh in my mind for when comics come back properly.

While reading ‘The Uncanny Life of Moira X’, something struck me.

We see all of Moira’s lives (well, most of them) play out in much the same way. She meets Charles (or another mover and shaker in the mutant race), Charles forms the X-Men, mutantkind falls. But there are two lives where that DOESN’T happen. Life 1, where she lives out her days, unaware of mutants even being a thing. She marries, has kids, lives a GOOD, uncomplicated life and dies of old age. And Life 2, where she dies young in a plane crash.

That didn’t stand out as significant to me, at first, but this time...if mutant-human relationships are ALWAYS meant to worsen and lead to wars of genetic supremacy...how did she live out that first life with NO clue? If mutants were battling giant robots in the heart of New York City on the reg, it would be TALKED about. Even if she somehow avoided ever watching the news or reading a newspaper in her entire long life, SOMEONE would have said SOMETHING about it within earshot...right? And if they had, you would think the narration would note that, considering how important that conflict is to the heart of HoX/PoX...

Overheard in line at a grocery store: “Did you hear? Those mutant weirdos tried to blow up Madison Square Gardens! It’s TRUE! I saw it on CNN!”
Or at the bank: “You know, my granddaughter is one of those...’mutants’...that’ve been in the paper? She’s one of the good ones, though...she makes plants grow!”

It seems impossible to me that Moira grew to old age and died without ever hearing of the existence of evil mutants or giant mutant-killing robots. And in her second life, she dies too young to know how mutant-human Relations went. So...what if she DID grow old without hearing about evil mutants or giant robots or genocidal purges...because things never escalate to that point unless she interferes? What if, by involving herself directly in mutant-human affairs, SHE is the reason mutantkind always falls? What if it’s her meddling - her surety that SHE knows what’s best because SHE has so much more life experience than anyone else - that causes Everything to fall apart?

And what if she realizes that, just before the end...and she’s reborn that *possible* 11th time Irene mentioned, and stays out of things (maybe even takes a whole...BUTTERFLY EFFECT solution to the problem...), leading to a better timeline for both humans and mutants? What if that is the end result, the way to move the X-Men - as a franchise - forward and not allow wiggle room for going back to the same old genocide cycle as before?

“Moira never got involved in this timeline, so mutants aren’t hated and feared on a global scale, and never have been. There are pockets of humanity - small, but loud, sometimes well-funded - who are racist jerks, sure, but people don’t kill their own children for being mutants anymore. They never did in this timeline. Tell a better story.”

Apologies if this has been brought up. I’ve been away a while.

Interesting, very interesting. This could be what may spur Irene to act as her contingency, perhaps Irene is realities way of trying to keep Moira in check and more so it would be so like Hickman to do something like this after having alter Moira's character in such a way. It's not really the Sentinels, Phalanx or a new breed humans taht are causing mutants to fail but her meddling instead.

[Glio]

It must be a thing if destiny said she can track her in any new life. Destiny is older than Moira meaning whether she knew about mutants or not they still existed and the history before Moira was born with namor still happened so I assume mutant hate would still exist.

But human hate without Sentinels wouldn't go too far.

I think the fact that the Sentinels are a constant is something important. They are AI, just like the Dominions.

[Steel Inquisitor]

The Dominions have to act against Moira at some point. I’m pretty sure at that point the Phoenix gets involved. Perfect set up for Jean to become Phoenix again. In fact things to me are moving in that direction with the return of the Goblin Queen.

What if they already have? The Dominions operate on such a scale that turning her and nobody noticing is a likely possibility. And if they truly are smarter then the Phalanx they'll be able to hide below the radar until they strike and Earth will be for the taking. Having Krakoa being their super-powered army waiting in the wings to be activated sure would be a twist.

[CRaymond]

The Dominions don’t know she exists/existed. Knowledge of her needs to hit the event horizon and it hasn’t. She died before the Nimbus-Phalanx went home. That’s why it was so important for her to die in the mutant zoo ASAP.

[Rev9]

It is only a problem because she is not immortal,every time she dies lives/realms she is part of reset.I think because of her mutation,she cannot be immortal as proved by lives 9(where she is in stasis for decades and still dies despite rolling with an immortal) and life 6(where she lives for 900+ years and still dies).At this point her greatest effort is to find a way to stay immortal as all she's worked for becomes void when she dies.I think the Shiar Golem is probably less with faking a death than trying ways to transfer her mutation into another vessel.Watch this space for that surprise.Xavier and Magnus know they are on the clock so they are behind the scenes working for a solution.The intent is good but could backfire in any number of ways,we see that Orchis are trying to capture the consciousness of the commander who died in a red crystal probably powering Nimrod,so I foresee a scenario where Moira
can try borrow a leaf from Orchis and reverse engineer the tech to render herself into either a cybernetic Golem or some mutant chimera with Sinister having the Apoth software.In that case Moira could turn into the very thing she hates or is running from -a technological homo novissima

[Glio]

The Dominions don’t know she exists/existed. Knowledge of her needs to hit the event horizon and it hasn’t. She died before the Nimbus-Phalanx went home. That’s why it was so important for her to die in the mutant zoo ASAP.

The Dominions don't know specifically about Moira but they should be aware that there have been reboots if they are able to survive them.

[Grunty]

Thinking about what ever there are other unexplained details in the memories Moira X showed Xavier, i had to remember the presence of Cylobel in life 6.
Was that ever elaborated on by Hickman?

Initialy the reader was led to believe that the events of Life 6 and Life 9 were supposed to be in one continuity, with the events of Life 9 taking place in X10 and those of Life 6 in X100.
So seeing Cylobel's empty body in X100, made sense since she was shown to get captured and put in that tube in X10 by Nimrod the Lesser. Which the reader was supposed to think took place 900 years before.

But with the major reveal of the two events being supposed to take place in different universes/timelines, with altered histories via Moira's presence, it raises the question how Cylobel could have ended up in the exact same particular situation twice?

Now Blackbrains allready existing in Life 6 isn't too farfetched, since they were (from what i recall) artifical mutants designed to be used against other mutants, which is not a new thing in the X-men franchise. So easily a repeating pattern.

However for this particular Blackbrain to exist and end up as husk in that tube, it would require similar events to have taken place. Quite a coincidence.

[Slicknickshady]

Hickman has ruined Moira.

[BroHomo]

Hickman has ruined Moira.

Wasn't she dead before this?....Yeahh she was the only HUMAN fatality of a disease designed to kill only Mutants.
the only thing Hickman ruined is our collective guilablity to let a storyline like that slide...

[Steel Inquisitor]

Wasn't she dead before this?....Yeahh she was the only HUMAN fatality of a disease designed to kill only Mutants.
the only thing Hickman ruined is our collective guilablity to let a storyline like that slide...

Death was a joke in comic book long before Hickman's X-men, especially in the X-titles. Mutants are a sub-species of humanity, the Legacy Virus jumping from one to the other isn't that far fetched - in real life viruses do this.

https://www.livescience.com/12951-10...influenza.html

Plague is a bacterial disease caused by Yersinia pestis. It is carried by rodents and even cats, and hops to humans through bites from infected fleas (often rat fleas). The disease becomes most deadly to us when transmitted between people, as became the case in the 1300s. Symptoms include fever, chills, weakness, and swollen and painful lymph nodes. Even today, if not treated, the disease is deadly.