Wonder Woman: Dead Land an insult to superman? Spoiler

[kjn]

To me, Dead Earth is an insult to Wonder Woman.

[JAK]

Agreed. I mean okay she calls him Kal in most post-Crisis based iterations. But its not because she views him as an outsider, its just that he happens to have two proper names and each has value. She uses one over the other. And considering not many others call him that it became almost like her own nickname for him in a way. There was love in it, not exclusion.

Plus, it's the proper name that won't give away his secret identity, so she doesn't have to think about where/when she uses it.

[manwhohaseverything]

It doesn't matter if one has the powers of a god or one was born human. Their character defines them. Medusa was out-and-out a villainous monster and Superman is categorically not. He deserved better. Moreover, Perseus isn't exactly friends with her beforehand the way Diana is with Clark. This is not a good comparison on any front, stop dying on a shaky hill. You are better than this.

Clark himself views himself as a person. We have 80 years of history to back that up. He buries people, alien or otherwise, lots of times in that history. Earth-2 Superman post Infinite crisis was buried and he considered himself more Kal than Clark. Come on, dude.

Yeah! I don't see medusa as a villain at all and. She got raped and cursed(depending on the version). Would it matter if perseus was friends or not with her if she started turning people into stone? Right or wrong perseus would have had to end medusa.Medusa could be perseus's mother. He would have still have had to do the same act. Why? Because that's the only thing honourable . Letting petty relationship get in the way in the middle of a battle isn't honourable. It's viewed as cowardice.

What you are suggesting is diana owes clark a burial, not because he is a person but because he is her friend. While same courtesy shouldn't be allowed to medusa. See the problem here. Diana's reasoning would be petty relationship.

Who said clark doesn't? Medusa was a person too. So what? Have you actually read what i wrote? Superman stories has been asking the question of personhood since get go. It's the theme of his stories. If medusa isn't a person. Clark isn't either. That's my point.If medusa is a monster. So is clark(alien are part of horror tales as well) . It's that simple.

[Robanker]

Yeah! I don't see medusa as a villain at all and. She got raped and cursed(depending on the version). Would it matter if perseus was friends or not with her if she started turning people into stone? Right or wrong perseus would have had to end medusa.Medusa could be perseus's mother. He would have still have had to do the same act. Why? Because that's the only thing honourable . Letting petty relationship get in the way in the middle of a battle isn't honourable. It's viewed as cowardice.

What you are suggesting is diana owes clark a burial, not because he is a person but because he is her friend. While same courtesy shouldn't be allowed to medusa. See the problem here. Diana's reasoning would be petty relationship.

Who said clark doesn't? Medusa was a person too. So what? Have you actually read what i wrote? Superman stories has been asking the question of personhood since get go. It's the theme of his stories. If medusa isn't a person. Clark isn't either. That's my point.If medusa is a monster. So is clark(alien are part of horror tales as well) . It's that simple.

It really, truly isn't, but you're too in love with your take to see it. Medusa murders people for spite or sport. She's a monster. That's her function in the narrative, like Lex Luthor. He's the villain, as is she. Clark isn't, and no mental gymnastics is going to overlook the 80 years of published history that refutes your assertion that Clark isn't a person, YouTube video be damned

Yeah, Medusa needed to be killed for that plot. Clark didn't. The actual story does Diana murdered her friend and it wasn't justified.

And yes, Diana would bury Medusa as well if she wished to and truly was a tortured soul put to rest. Traditionally she is essentially a beast by the time she is killed, and it's treated as such by the plot. Not saying it's the best look given her history, but that's how the myth and Perseus dispatch of the gorgon. That you seem convinced people shouldn't bury their friends because they're not human says a lot more about you, dude. The same goes for your inability to distinguish their origins and the actions that make up their lives. You're so obsessed with "but both are inhuman" that you're ignoring that one uses their abilities to harm others and one in service of them. Yes, they're very different. As much as a good father and one that beats their children. This isn't the middle ages. Come on.

[Ra-El]

Person or not person doesn't matter, the only thing important is that the author though it would be badass for Wonder Woman to use Superman skull and spine as a weapon, any reasoning behind it came after, is pretty clear that first came the image of the Super flail and then any reason for it.
As a Superman fan, honestly I don't care, I wasn't reading Dead Earth before and will keep it that way. It spoke way more with me that Batman have half a dozen Black Label books, Harley Quinn and Joker the same, that we have reports of some other projects with Wonder Woman and all we got with Superman is a Year One book, that can be described as a Batman spin off.

Now the real question is, why? is DC not interested or there isn't any big creator interested in telling a Black Label Superman story? Mark Russel said more than once that he wants to write a Superman book, so what is keeping DC from giving him a shot?

[Vakanai]

Person or not person doesn't matter, the only thing important is that the author though it would be badass for Wonder Woman to use Superman skull and spine as a weapon, any reasoning behind it came after, is pretty clear that first came the image of the Super flail and then any reason for it.
As a Superman fan, honestly I don't care, I wasn't reading Dead Earth before and will keep it that way. It spoke way more with me that Batman have half a dozen Black Label books, Harley Quinn and Joker the same, that we have reports of some other projects with Wonder Woman and all we got with Superman is a Year One book, that can be described as a Batman spin off.

Now the real question is, why? is DC not interested or there isn't any big creator interested in telling a Black Label Superman story? Mark Russel said more than once that he wants to write a Superman book, so what is keeping DC from giving him a shot?

I only read the first issue, but other than taking place in continuity with Miller's Dark Knight stuff and written by him, how is it a Batman spin off?

[Ra-El]

I only read the first issue, but other than taking place in continuity with Miller's Dark Knight stuff and written by him, how is it a Batman spin off?

I only read the first issue, too.
It's a prequel, the backstory of the antagonist of DKR, when Miller had the oportunity of presenting his on take on Superman, in his on words proving that he was fan of the character and the only reason he was presented that way on DKR was because it was a Batman story, he chose to use the same version of the character, the version that we know will become a puppet to the goverment, the same version that almost every Superman fan dislike.
I pretty sure the main selling point used in the DC offices was that it was the story of DKR Superman, not that it was a Superman story. So the only Black Label Superman project so far only exists because of it's Batman conections.

[manwhohaseverything]

It really, truly isn't, but you're too in love with your take to see it. Medusa murders people for spite or sport. She's a monster. That's her function in the narrative, like Lex Luthor. He's the villain, as is she. Clark isn't, and no mental gymnastics is going to overlook the 80 years of published history that refutes your assertion that Clark isn't a person, YouTube video be damned

Yeah, Medusa needed to be killed for that plot. Clark didn't. The actual story does Diana murdered her friend and it wasn't justified.

And yes, Diana would bury Medusa as well if she wished to and truly was a tortured soul put to rest. Traditionally she is essentially a beast by the time she is killed, and it's treated as such by the plot. Not saying it's the best look given her history, but that's how the myth and Perseus dispatch of the gorgon. That you seem convinced people shouldn't bury their friends because they're not human says a lot more about you, dude. The same goes for your inability to distinguish their origins and the actions that make up their lives. You're so obsessed with "but both are inhuman" that you're ignoring that one uses their abilities to harm others and one in service of them. Yes, they're very different. As much as a good father and one that beats their children. This isn't the middle ages. Come on.

Again, when did i argue clark isn't a person? All i said was ancient greeks tales doesn't give these guys burials.if medusa didn't get a burial, chances of superman not getting one gets higher as well. Right, did she actively seek out to kill people outside her lair? Jackasses went to her lair to beat her and kill her. People knew and still went. Their funeral.

Fair enough, i haven't read the story.

Right, she wouldn't use her head to kill another thing. I seriously doubt that. Perseus was a hero too. So what? Beasts that go on doing their own thing is fair game for "person" to kill without a rhyme or reason? Clark can act like a beast too sometimes. Especially, if he is pissed. No, i am not convinced anything. All i am saying it would be consistent with the lore that superman gets treated like nemean lion or medusa. I don't understand the relevance of any differences in their origins. So being "evil" or "misuse of power" robs medusa of her personhood? Clark is a person because he is good? So, if superman becomes 'evil' . He doesn't get the courtesy of a burial. He seizes to be a person . Well then, more than half of humanity will also be not eligible. That's a faulty reasoning. I haven't seen anything from superman to be treated like one of us, rather than one of them. He is just like minotaur or centaur or pegasus or medusa. This might not be the middle ages. But, diana's perspective being limited by the culture she was born and brought up in. That's very much logical.She doesn't feel the need and uses the Clark's bones. Cause in her mind, that's what you do with beings like superman.

[Agent Z]

Again, when did i argue clark isn't a person? All i said was ancient greeks tales doesn't give these guys burials.if medusa didn't get a burial, chances of superman not getting one gets higher as well. Right, did she actively seek out to kill people outside her lair? Jackasses went to her lair to beat her and kill her. People knew and still went. Their funeral.

Fair enough, i haven't read the story.

Right, she wouldn't use her head to kill another thing. I seriously doubt that. Perseus was a hero too. So what? Beasts that go on doing their own thing is fair game for "person" to kill without a rhyme or reason? Clark can act like a beast too sometimes. Especially, if he is pissed. No, i am not convinced anything. All i am saying it would be consistent with the lore that superman gets treated like nemean lion or medusa. I don't understand the relevance of any differences in their origins. So being "evil" or "misuse of power" robs medusa of her personhood? Clark is a person because he is good? So, if superman becomes 'evil' . He doesn't get the courtesy of a burial. He seizes to be a person . Well then, more than half of humanity will also be not eligible. That's a faulty reasoning. I haven't seen anything from superman to be treated like one of us, rather than one of them. He is just like minotaur or centaur or pegasus or medusa. This might not be the middle ages. But, diana's perspective being limited by the culture she was born and brought up in. That's very much logical.She doesn't feel the need and uses the Clark's bones. Cause in her mind, that's what you do with beings like superman.

Diana's behavior is easily explained by the fact that this is an alternate universe and she is nothing like the Diana of the main universe who would not kill (a heroic and innocent) Superman let alone mutilate and defile his corpse. Trying to justify this by bringing ancient Greek myths and customs that the main Diana has never followed directly if at all is pointless.

[Lokimaru]

The only thing I've read of Dead Earth was the scene where she used turned his skull into flail which I thought looked kind of cool.

Meh I can find instances where the Superman writers did Wonder Woman dirty, like him snapping her neck with the lasso of truth in that World Finest story line. It goes both ways. Part of Diana's makeup as a character is that she is his physical equal.

I'm really only bothered by obvious cases of jobbing like the Batman nonsense.

If anything I think it's intriguing that all these years after Superman got the most signifcant power level cut of any cape character with the Byrne reboot yet still maintained in position of being the measuring stick. Really puts into perspective what a beast he was during the Pre-Crisis Years.

How can you call someone a physical equal when one is is weak to piercing weapons?

[achilles]

Sounds like another case of WW being the villian. Which means for this to have any meaning at all, she HAS to die in the end, and a not very heroic manner to make up for her villainous acts. Frankly, I wish they'd stop doing this with their heroes. I know they think it's edgy and all, but really, it isn't. It's just ruining their characters. Honestly, it makes it hard to like the heroes who do this sort of thing.

[lotchj]

Sounds like another case of WW being the villian. Which means for this to have any meaning at all, she HAS to die in the end, and a not very heroic manner to make up for her villainous acts. Frankly, I wish they'd stop doing this with their heroes. I know they think it's edgy and all, but really, it isn't. It's just ruining their characters. Honestly, it makes it hard to like the heroes who do this sort of thing.

I'm sick of them writing stories like these! It's not edgy, it's about the writers Morbid fascination with making heroes murders!! Portraying heroes no different than the criminals they fight!! It's anti-hero, pro-criminal trend of today. Writer Worship the criminal element now, why not make the heroes just like the criminals!! From what I've been reading Dc's want their universe to be dark!! A universe fill with murders and extremely violence!! Calling the heroes of their dark universe edgy, but really their just a bunch of murdering animals!!

[Nelliebly]

I have absolutely no clue about the context of this story (and given what I’ve read here I do not plan to read it) but ...is Superman married here?

Wonder Woman would not desecrate the body of her friend. She would return his body to his wife and family for proper burial and out of respect. Because she’s not a cold, unfeeling monster.

I’m not even going to touch the idea that she would think it was ok because Superman is a mythical beast of some sort because that’s so insulting it makes me want to bang my head against a wall.

[manwhohaseverything]

Diana's behavior is easily explained by the fact that this is an alternate universe and she is nothing like the Diana of the main universe who would not kill (a heroic and innocent) Superman let alone mutilate and defile his corpse. Trying to justify this by bringing ancient Greek myths and customs that the main Diana has never followed directly if at all is pointless.

Fair enough, but are you sure the author didn't intent for that? What if he did? If i am gonna right a dc story with sun wukong. I would draw from those texts. Its only natural.My main reference would be journey to the west.

I find the reactions very interesting. Why? Because it asks a question. Would killing superman be considered murderer in many cultures? Things like that you know.
"Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought".

I’m not even going to touch the idea that she would think it was ok because Superman is a mythical beast of some sort because that’s so insulting it makes me want to bang my head against a wall.

Why? Are mythical creatures lower beings in your mind?here is a fine idea. Clark/kal el/superman is an alien. He is gonna be treated like one of "them" ,in many of the cultures. People pushed in the jesus imagery so much, that they forget. Superman has another symbolism - the fenrir wolf.If you treat and chain a beast with violence and power. Sooner or later it will break free and be what its treated as. It won't be pretty.The only reason he ain't is because he wasn't treated like that by certain section of society.But,that doesn’t mean he doesn't have those undertones. Stop using superman character like a human in story. He wasn't meant to be that.

I can understand the reaction. It's because diana is the one doing it. She is a hero. Like i said, even heroes can be limited by the space and time.

[Gaius]

Fair enough, but are you sure the author didn't intent for that? What if he did? If i am gonna right a dc story with sun wukong. I would draw from those texts. Its only natural.My main reference would be journey to the west.

Yeah, but in this case WW's "original texts" aren't Greek mythology because she's not a character from that mythology. Even when she beheaded Medusa in a story she didn't go parading around the head.