Legacy vs Original Characters

[mathew101281]

Who does that?

Because if the usual part of the fandom will scream Kamala or Riri Williams-NEITHER did that. Yet will be accused of it.

Meanwhile Tim Drake-who had ZERO history showed up and became Robin.

Or Cassandra Cain.

Kamala, Tim, and Cass all took monikers that weren't in use when the took them up. They weren't replacing anybody. Barbara Gordon hadn't been Batgirl for years, Dick Grayson hadn't been Robin for years, And Carol Danvers had become Captain Marvel.

[DrNewGod]

Kamala, Tim, and Cass all took monikers that weren't in use when the took them up. They weren't replacing anybody. Barbara Gordon hadn't been Batgirl for years, Dick Grayson hadn't been Robin for years, And Carol Danvers had become Captain Marvel.

Plus, Tim Drake went through a pretty long non-costumed arc where his capabilities were clearly established before he was given the costume. Ran something like a year. It wasn't an instant coronation thing.

[Devaishwarya]

When written well and illustrated beauty-fully...I like both.

[Agent Z]

I have no preference.

[Username taken]

I have no preference.

I think someone made a point earlier that the direct market is very unforgiving for new characters, doubly so for minority characters. I still remember the whole fiasco with “Motor Crush” where most DM retailers refused to sell the book most likely because it was a “black female” main character. But the collected editions topped the GN charts and sold very well in the Bookstore market and the creators subsequently abandoned the DM altogether. The DM is too small and too risk averse when it comes to new characters.

Stuff like this is why Marvel and DC have in recent years struggled to sell new characters that aren’t legacy characters, the DM just doesn’t accept them. That being said, there is something to be said about the company throwing their weight behind the legacy characters. Marvel/Sony/Disney have thrown their weight behind Miles Morales hence that character’s success (it’s not a stretch to say that a lot of young people know Miles as Spider-man), similar effort has been done with Kamala Khan. It also helps that these characters found a lot of their success outside of the direct market.

This is where DC made some errors because the most successful legacy character in comics IMO is Wally West but Didio and co moved heaven and earth to get him shunted to the side. Didio almost killed Nightwing for reasons that don’t make any sense to me at all. Characters like Cassie Cain and Jason Rusch were pushed aside for the originals, if the publisher of the titles don’t have faith in their own characters why should the audience?

Beyond this, I think legacy characters could get more traction in the bookstores because that area is much larger than than the DM and certainly far,far more diverse in offerings and audiences. If Moon Girl could get about 50 issues because of Scholastic, I’m sure other characters can equally well in that area. I think it’s time Marvel and DC start pushing more and more out of the direct market, it’s starting to look more and more like an inflexible dying market especially with DC moving away from Diamond.

[Dr. Ellingham]

Both can work. But just looking at DC:

Black Lightning has a TV show - despite decades of animosity between his co-creator and DC. Cyborg almost had a solo film. And he's appeared in live-action a couple of times, and been a main character on a few cartoons as well.

Legacies? Steel had a solo film.

So - nothing else needs to be said. Victory to original characters.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Legacy works as a sales tool but it could be off putting to some casual fans. For example, the tag line of Chinese Superman that Kenan had felt tacky and insulting to many of my friends. Same with Wally's original origin.

Legacies do get a bad rep as derivative or minimes thats hard to shake.

[skyvolt2000]

Both can work. But just looking at DC:

Black Lightning has a TV show - despite decades of animosity between his co-creator and DC. Cyborg almost had a solo film. And he's appeared in live-action a couple of times, and been a main character on a few cartoons as well.

Legacies? Steel had a solo film.

So - nothing else needs to be said. Victory to original characters.

Jaime Reyes had more solo issues than Cyborg & Black Lighting.

Jason Rusch has more issues than Cyborg & Black Lighting & Vixen.

Simon & Jessica held a book together longer than Cyborg and Black Lightning.

Cassandra Cain is the most success female of color at both companies and she held a Batgirl book for 6 years.

Steel held a book longer than Cyborg & Black Lightning.

Kyle held a book longer than Cyborg & Black Lightning & Vixen.

Conner Kent held a book longer than Cyborg, Black Lightning & Vixen.

Tim Drake held a book longer than those 3.

Supergirl (if you want to count her) has more books and she was killed off and came back.

All these legacies have had more success in terms of BOOKS than Cyborg and Black Lightning.

Cyborg can't move beyond man versus machine.

Black Lightning can't do anything with Batman's permission in Outsider-thus why Isabella is ticked.

Sad thing is the tv versions of Cyborg are well more received than castrated, depressed, outdated look Cyborg.

[dr-brainwave]

Original heroes (and villains) of course.

If by legacy you mean: someone uses the name/costume/powers/gimmicks of someone else, then i'm sorry to say that legacy is a euphemism for imposture.

[Johnny]

This may come as a surprise to many on here since Jaime Reyes is my favorite DC character of all time, but I definitely prefer original characters. With legacy it feels like we’re always competing for second place, and the White character that was replaced will always return to reclaim the mantle, because nostalgia. I mean just look at what’s happening to Jaime, Jason, Ryan, Cassandra, John...etc. I’d add Jessica to that list but she’s being treated like Supwrgirl/Batgirl/Hawkgirl (ie female counterpart to a male hero).

I don't disagree but nostalgia is nostalgia regardless of where it's coming from. The people who want to see their favorite legacy characters because they were more prominent in comics they grew up reading, or were featured in cartoons they grew up watching decades ago are no different than the people who hold the originals in higher regard for similar reasons. Any character that's been around for a long time and suddenly gets more prominence than they did in the past is usually due to nostalgia by the current people in charge of publication or outside DC media. Just thought I'd point that out since more often than not the word "nostalgia" tends to get thrown around here in a rather amusing fashion.

[skyvolt2000]

I don't disagree but nostalgia is nostalgia regardless of where it's coming from. The people who want to see their favorite legacy characters because they were more prominent in comics they grew up reading, or were featured in cartoons they grew up watching decades ago are no different than the people who hold the originals in higher regard for similar reasons. Any character that's been around for a long time and suddenly gets more prominence than they did in the past is usually due to nostalgia by the current people in charge of publication or outside DC media. Just thought I'd point that out since more often than not the word "nostalgia" tends to get thrown around here in a rather amusing fashion.

It's not amusing when one character gets ruined because management can't stop running back to the Silver Age.

Wanting Barry or Hal or Ted or Babs around is ZERO excuse for the mess we have seen done to Jaime and the others.

If Spider-Man can have over 5 different guys go by that name-why can't that be done HERE?

No one had an issue with that Asian Spider-Man who had a tv show in the 70s. No one had an issue with Miguel O'Hara.

Green Lantern is not Hal Jordan worship-it's a police force.

All the money they tossed away because Hal has to be the one.

Same with Flash.

[Johnny]

It's not amusing when one character gets ruined because management can't stop running back to the Silver Age.

Wanting Barry or Hal or Ted or Babs around is ZERO excuse for the mess we have seen done to Jaime and the others.

If Spider-Man can have over 5 different guys go by that name-why can't that be done HERE?

No one had an issue with that Asian Spider-Man who had a tv show in the 70s. No one had an issue with Miguel O'Hara.

Green Lantern is not Hal Jordan worship-it's a police force.

All the money they tossed away because Hal has to be the one.

Same with Flash.

It is amusing. You are guilty of doing the exact same thing you like to complain about. We all know DC's priorities about which characters to push is based on who the people in charge happen to be. The people in charge during the 90s not only couldn't give a rat's ass about characters like Barry Allen and Hal Jordan, but they did everything in their power to completely destroy and character assassinate the latter. Why? Because they didn't like him being in the way of the plans they had in store for the GL franchise. If you think they pissed money away by focusing on Hal, think about how much more money they likely pissed away by getting rid of all other GLs so only one could remain back then. So yes, it is amusing, because when all is said and done this is about "my favorite isn't getting his/her due". Don't try to act like this is about equality. DC has reached a point with series like Flash and GL where equality is impossible. There are too many carriers of those mantles and there will always those who are pushed more than others and the people who don't like them would complain about how their favorites are being shafted. That's their "nostalgia" speaking for them.

Either way, that goes for both original and legacy characters. Fans of either will always hate it when they feel like they're being misused or underdeveloped.

[9th.]

Legacy works as a sales tool but it could be off putting to some casual fans. For example, the tag line of Chinese Superman that Kenan had felt tacky and insulting to many of my friends. Same with Wally's original origin.

Legacies do get a bad rep as derivative or minimes thats hard to shake.

What was insulting? I'm drawing a blank rn

[lemonpeace]

Legacy works as a sales tool but it could be off putting to some casual fans. For example, the tag line of Chinese Superman that Kenan had felt tacky and insulting to many of my friends. Same with Wally's original origin.

Legacies do get a bad rep as derivative or minimes thats hard to shake.

was he ever tagged as "Chinese Superman"? I could've sworn he's only ever been "New Super-Man". regardless, just like when people wanna complain about Black Lightning having black in his name (and expressing saying it's not the color but the race), there is nothing wrong or insulting with characters being called what they are. people get locked in on that trope and forget that the reason people felt a type of way about explicitly stating their race/nationality was that it used to be that characters of color were boiled down to just that part and played into those stereotypes. and just like with Black Lightning, this is not that because while Kenan is Chinese, Chinese culture IS a big part of his character, he is not limited by that fact nor is it used as an excuse to play into stereotypes; Kenan was created and primary written by a Taiwanese creator, I think he knew what he was doing.

I don't think the people who'd be turned off by him being called "Chinese Superman" when the title says "New Super-Man" were all that interested in the book in the first place. that may be a bit too much of an assumption but it's the only reason I could see for something that trivial.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

What was insulting? I'm drawing a blank rn

was he ever tagged as "Chinese Superman"? I could've sworn he's only ever been "New Super-Man". regardless, just like when people wanna complain about Black Lightning having black in his name (and expressing saying it's not the color but the race), there is nothing wrong or insulting with characters being called what they are. people get locked in on that trope and forget that the reason people felt a type of way about explicitly stating their race/nationality was that it used to be that characters of color were boiled down to just that part and played into those stereotypes. and just like with Black Lightning, this is not that because while Kenan is Chinese, Chinese culture IS a big part of his character, he is not limited by that fact nor is it used as an excuse to play into stereotypes; Kenan was created and primary written by a Taiwanese creator, I think he knew what he was doing.

I don't think the people who'd be turned off by him being called "Chinese Superman" when the title says "New Super-Man" were all that interested in the book in the first place. that may be a bit too much of an assumption but it's the only reason I could see for something that trivial.

I think they just thought the idea of a chinese superman as a half measure or tacky.

Insulting may not have been the right phrase.

EDIT- i get where EL_Gato is coming from. After a while Legacy and replacements feel like a half measure.