Legacy vs Original Characters

[Samm]

There was an interesting debate going on in the 5G thread that I think warrants it’s own thread and discussion. Basically, while all agreed that diversity is important, many disagreed on how to go about it. Some argued that legacy is the only way to introduce new diverse characters and have them stick, while others argued original characters not attached to another heroes mantle was the way to go. What do you think?

Here are some numbers:

LEGACY
Kyle Rayner (182 solo issues)
John Stewart (80 solo issues)
Batgirl (79 solo issues)
Blue Beetle (72 solo issues)
Jessica Cruz (56 solo issues)
Firestorm (56 solo issues)
Simon Baz (54 solo issues)
Connor Hawke (36 solo issues)
*Batwing (35 solo issues)
*El Diablo (34 solo issues)
The Atom (26 solo issues)
Super-Man (24 solo issues)
Dr Fate (18 solo issues)

*Two versions share that number.

ORIGINAL
Static (59 solo issues)
Arak (56 solo issues)
Steel (53 solo issues)
Hardware (50 solo issues)
Cyborg (42 solo issues)
Icon (41 solo issues)
Black Lightning (36 solo issues)
Xombi (28 solo issues)
Katana (22 solo issues)
Silencer (18 solo issues)
Kobalt (16 solo issues)
Sideways (13 solo issues)
Voodoo (12 solo issues)

Just some numbers I’ve gathered to compare success rate in leading solo stories between legacy and non legacy heroes. Seems like it’s a race to see who gets to the century mark first! Though I didn’t add Kyle Rayner who is well past the century mark, since his inclusion would be quite controversial. What do you prefer? Legacy? Or Original mantles?

[sifighter]

I prefer legacy characters, but that has to do mainly why I like DC comics. See I’m someone who loves DC sense of history and tradition in its characters, I genuinely enjoy seeing something like Jay Garrick be the first flash, who then inspires Barry Allen, who then train Wally West and so on and so forth. I like seeing members of the JSA who are the children or grandchildren of old heroes, I like seeing Jon and Damian, I like seeing Ted Kord train Jaime Reyes or Kent Nelson train Khalid Nassour, who is his grand-nephew. So yeah that’s why I prefer legacy’s as I feel they add more to the world and creates deeper foundations in the universe.

As for the main argument, that’s hard to say. I personally have gotten attached to newer characters like Sideways and most definitely Static and Cyborg, but I will admit that I’m much more likely to read someone who is a new legacy like Kenan Kong the Chinese superman because he’s connected to Superman over say some completely new original Asian character I’ve never heard of. That’s not to say I won’t come back around if I hear good things which is how I work with my Indie comics but I’m not likely to start with it from the beginning.

[Jekyll]

For me it’s a character by character basis.

Mr. Terrific? Michael Holt is my guy. I find him more interesting than Terry.

The Atom? Ray Palmer is my guy. I find Ray a lot more interesting than Ryan.

The Flash? Jay, Wally, Barry, in that order.

I am not one over the other, it’s completely in the character and the teams behind those characters.

[skyvolt2000]

There was an interesting debate going on in the 5G thread that I think warrants it’s own thread and discussion. Basically, while all agreed that diversity is important, many disagreed on how to go about it. Some argued that legacy is the only way to introduce new diverse characters and have them stick, while others argued original characters not attached to another heroes mantle was the way to go. What do you think?

Here are some numbers:

LEGACY
Batgirl (79 solo issues)
Blue Beetle (72 solo issues)
John Stewart (64 solo issues)
Jessica Cruz (57 solo issues)
Simon Baz (57 solo issues)
Firestorm (56 solo issues)
Connor Hawke (36 solo issues)
*Batwing (35 solo issues)
*El Diablo (34 solo issues)
The Atom (26 solo issues)
Super-Man (24 solo issues)
Dr Fate (18 solo issues)

*Two versions share that number.

ORIGINAL
Static (57 solo issues)
Steel (53 solo issues)
Deathblow (51 solo issues)
Hardware (50 solo issues)
Cyborg (42 solo issues)
Icon (41 solo issues)
Black Lightning (36 solo issues)
Xombi (28 solo issues)
Katana (22 solo issues)
Silencer (18 solo issues)
Kobalt (16 solo issues)
Sideways (13 solo issues)
Voodoo (12 solo issues)

Just some numbers I’ve gathered to compare success rate in leading solo stories between legacy and non legacy heroes. Seems like it’s a race to see who gets to the century mark first! Though I didn’t add Kyle Rayner who is well past the century mark, since his inclusion would be quite controversial. What do you prefer? Legacy? Or Original mantles?

Steel belongs under legacy. Since he has a connection to Superman.

New Superman is just that in name only-so a case in either slot could fit him.

Milestone gang are not owned by DC-so they should not be counted as DC properties.

Kyle should count as legacy.

John Stewart has 18 solo issues. mainly Green Lantern Mosaic. Now a case can be made for GLC when he was the sole human GL.

At Dc the legacies wipe the floor with originals. marvel it's the other way around.

[9th.]

What about Kenan Kong and the Manhunters?

[9th.]

Also I think in this climate legacy is the way to go when introducing new characters. Does it always work? No but it has a better success rate than introducing new characters not connecting to a huge franchise. It's not ideal but I don't think they really have a choice.

[Dr. Poison]

Most of the time I prefer original heroes like Black Lightning, Fire, Katanna, Vibe, and Vixen but other times a legacy character comes across as interesting like Blue Beetle(Jamie), Dr. Light(Kimiyo), Mr. Terrific(Michael), and Steel(John). It really depends on the character(and the creative team of course).

What a I don't care of is when an established character is killed off only to replace them less than 6 months later with someone else(regardless of ethnicity). Let the dust settle for a while before a legacy character is created otherwise it comes across as rushed and/or cheap sometimes.

[Jim Kelly]

I've never liked the thinking behind the legs at sea. To me a good character deserves a distinctive moniker and to be their own person--not in the shadow of any other character.

None of the Green Lanterns should be saddled with that label--unless you mean that they are all spun off from Alan Scott, the original Green Lantern. But that's never how they were advertised. They are all members of a Corps (I don't even believe that "Green Lantern" is the name in the other space alien languages).

Steel (John Henry) is more like the kind of character that people say is legacied--because his whole existence was spun off from Superman. However, in terms of the monicker, this brings up another matter. I think it's just an accident that he happens to have the same codename as a member of the Heywood family. There are some super-hero names that get used a lot--but there's no intention to link these cats with other characters that used the same name.

There were loads of Manhunters and Starmen and they were mostly unrelated--before later creators decided to link them. Likewise with Starfire, Ghost, Spider, Cat, Witch, Knight, Hyperman, Thunder, Angel, etc.

[Samm]

Steel belongs under legacy. Since he has a connection to Superman.

New Superman is just that in name only-so a case in either slot could fit him.

Milestone gang are not owned by DC-so they should not be counted as DC properties.

Kyle should count as legacy.

John Stewart has 18 solo issues. mainly Green Lantern Mosaic. Now a case can be made for GLC when he was the sole human GL.

At Dc the legacies wipe the floor with originals. marvel it's the other way around.

I didn’t include Kyle because he wasn’t created as a diverse character. He was intended to be White, retcon or not. Though it does make DC look better if we include him, since he’s the only one who has over 100+ solo issues (up there with Marvel’s Black Panther, Shang Chi and Luke Cage). Heck Marvel legacy is now doing better than DC thanks to Miles and Kamala. They have books, while Jaime and Cass don’t.

What about Kenan Kong and the Manhunters?

He’s included on the legacy side

[Ascended]

There was an interesting debate going on in the 5G thread that I think warrants it’s own thread and discussion. Basically, while all agreed that diversity is important, many disagreed on how to go about it. Some argued that legacy is the only way to introduce new diverse characters and have them stick, while others argued original characters not attached to another heroes mantle was the way to go. What do you think?

I think the direct market is very, very unforgiving of any new original character, regardless of race or gender or whatever. And it's only slightly more forgiving of new legacies, regardless of race or gender or whatever.

So as far as the direct market goes.....you're largely screwed either way. Legacy tends to go over better at DC than OG's, but not by much. Whoever you are, if you haven't existed for at least thirty-forty years, you gotta be twice as good to get half as much recognition.

Outside of the direct market, in things like bookstore OGN's, it doesn't seem to matter a whole hell of a lot. The Raven OGN apparently sold well, and she's an original IP, but there seems to be plenty of hype and interest in Aqualad's new OGN too and he's a legacy. Outside of the hobby shop, where these heroes aren't so firmly entrenched in the classic history and hierarchy and can reach a wider audience who don't live in that hierarchy like we do, you have plenty of wiggle room to make any character successful.

I guess my answer is "Forget the direct market; focus new characters in outside/larger media and when they prove popular, push them in the direct market." Basically I think things have reversed; once upon a time it was common sense wisdom to introduce a character in comics and then work them into larger media.....today I think you've got better odds of being successful in outside media, and then you can get some traction in the comics. I mean, look at Aqualad; he's been in comics for about a decade or so and has done f**k all. He barely has a presence, spending a good chunk of this time not seeing page time at all. But he's been in three seasons of a cartoon, at least two video games (DCU Online and a YJ game I never played), has a few toys, and a new OGN. It seems easier to make Kaldur successful in outside media, and once he builds a solid foundation there, will likely have an easier time finding page time in the floppies.

[Sutekh]

For me it’s a character by character basis.

Same. I'm all about the legacy Michael Holt/Mr. Terrific or Danette Reilley/Firebrand, but the original Kent Nelson/Dr. Fate or Helena Wayne/Huntress. Sometimes I like the new Wally or John/Kyle over the older Hal or Barry, or even older Alan and Jay, but other times I'm all about the new shiny Jaime Reyes over Ted Kord or that Garrett guy.

Other times, I'm right in the middle, preferring Dick, Tim and Jason to Bruce at the one end, and Damien, at the other, or preferring Superboy-Conner in the middle, to Superboy-Clark before, or Superboy-Jon, after.

It's a total crap shoot.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Like others have said I judge them on a character basis. I do like numerous DC legacies, and I don't like it when DC subverts them to let the originals take over - like Hal and Barry. DC has an edge over Marvel with pushing legacies yet its been undermined too much over the years.

[Sutekh]

Like others have said I judge them on a character basis. I do like numerous DC legacies, and I don't like it when DC subverts them to let the originals take over - like Hal and Barry. DC has an edge over Marvel with pushing legacies yet its been undermined too much over the years.

For a time, it was why I was more of a DC guy than a Marvel guy, their superior use of legacy characters and younger up-and-coming teen teams like the 'New' Teen Titans, back in the Wolfman/Perez days, who got handled, IMO, quite a bit better than the New Mutants, over at Marvel. Ditto Young Justice vs. the 'New X-Men,' later on. One company seemed to really be supporting their new characters, and the other, not so much.

And then it all went **** up, and if you weren't one of the 'big seven' Justice League characters, you might not even exist, and if you did exist, it would be to show up for a few panels and get your head punched off by Superpunk Prime. Yikes.

At least that 'age' seems to be over. For now. I heard that S-Prime might be coming back, just in time for me to be relieved that there's not a lot of characters I like active at DC for him to be killing off, at the moment...

[Vampire Savior]

It's an interesting thing. I would usually say original characters would be better, but there is no original PoC character at DC Comics that has their own interesting mythology to me. Thus, I'm afraid it's somewhat of a wash. What I think would be ideal--a PoC character with a mythology as good or better than the best ones at DC--is a unicorn. It doesn't really exist at DC. So, I would be comparing an idyllic imaginary thing against DC's legacy PoC. In that since, original characters would be better, because the legacy PoC don't have their own mythologies and are in the shadows of white characters, but admittedly, I've never seen DC do an original independent PoC character that well.

[j9ac9k]

What about AMAZING MAN? He's actually both, in terms of PoC.