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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Default Thoughts on the Post Giffen/Dematteis Dan Jurgens Justice League run?

    Currently reading it right now. I'm pleasantly suprised. It's definitely puts a lot more emphasis on action than the "bwa-ha-ha" era of the Justice League, which is good because Jurgens excels at fight scenes. However, his comedy is abysmal. The jokes are dated and derivative, and ultimately feel like editorial forced him to add humor.
    Last edited by Timothy Hunter; 06-20-2020 at 04:27 PM.

  2. #2
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    Wasn't very interested In Jurgen's run, honestly. That said -- the Giffen/Dematteis run got too broad on comedy over the years -- and I was happy to see it end. It was much better when the comedy was more subtle. By the time most of the serious characters had left -- and Beetle, Booster, Fire and ice were the central characters -- the book had jumped the shark. That said -- Adam Hughes drew some pretty picture during that stage.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcekada View Post
    Wasn't very interested In Jurgen's run, honestly. That said -- the Giffen/Dematteis run got too broad on comedy over the years -- and I was happy to see it end. It was much better when the comedy was more subtle. By the time most of the serious characters had left -- and Beetle, Booster, Fire and ice were the central characters -- the book had jumped the shark. That said -- Adam Hughes drew some pretty picture during that stage.
    Yeah. It's very difficult to do humor in monthly comics. In my opinion 40% of the jokes worked while 60% fell flat in Giffen/Dematteis's run. That's still a better batting average than most superhero books with a comedic bent, however.

  4. #4
    Ultimate Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    I remember being happy Hal was included in JLE during this time, but other than a few pretty images from Jurgens, I don't remember much of anything about that run.

  5. #5
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    At the time, "Destiny's Hand" was one of the best Justice League stories ever I thought. It probably would have been in the Top 10 for the longest time.

    That said, his run was ultimately had mixed reviews because he ended up breaking up the core of the team only to insert his pet characters and change the team to a Superman-centric league (which he was also writing).

    Then he DID THE EXACT SAME THING AGAIN in the New 52! Pretty much immediately wrote out the core cast (except Booster/Beetle) and inserted a bunch of his pet characters.

  6. #6
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    My first ever JL comic was Jurgens & Jones' Justice League Spectacular, and I was hooked immediately. JLA #61 and JLE #37 were among the books I started my first LCS pull list with, so I still have a soft spot for this era, even though many fans have come to dislike it in hindsight. It did seem like Jurgens' heart was with the Superman titles, and JLA got treated like a satellite book of that franchise. Once Superman was out of the picture, we got "Destiny's Hand", (arguably Jurgens' high point) but his last few issues still read as very rushed. Another thing that I remember sticking out was how Fire and Ice were written. In particular, I didn't care for the lovesick schoolgirl crush Tora suddenly had on Superman. In fact, I loved what Dan Vado was doing with Ice right up until her death!

    The OP doesn't mention Jones' JLE, but for much of that era it was the more consistent book. Like Jurgens and Superman, Jones was also writing Green Lantern - his team leaders solo book - but to me it felt like it's own thing, despite the tight continuity. Even after the name change to JLI, the book still felt more consistent despite some soapy turns here and there.

    Although 1989's JLI Annual #3 was one of my first DC books, I didn't get around to going back and reading the entirety of Giffen & DeMatteis' run until right before "Zero Hour", which ended the Jurgens/Vado & Jones era for the most part. It was a departure to be sure, but I enjoyed it.
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  7. #7
    Mighty Member LifeIsILL's Avatar
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    I've read some stories such as the Bloodwynd saga and the one where they had to fight Dreamcatcher (or whatever his name is).

    It was pretty good, no clue why people think the 90s are bad.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by titanfan View Post

    That said, his run was ultimately had mixed reviews because he ended up breaking up the core of the team only to insert his pet characters and change the team to a Superman-centric league (which he was also writing).
    Honestly, I can't see Jurgen's run be seen as any worse than the majority of Breakdowns.

  9. #9
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    I didn't care about the Jurgens' run at all. Some of the characters' brain cells seem to drop tremendously and the dialogue was terrible. Ice especially suffered from Jurgens' writing. She was a very intelligent lady (despite dating Guy Gardner) until she became a silly, love-struck teenaged girl who fell for Superman. Didn't like it at all.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    My first ever JL comic was Jurgens & Jones' Justice League Spectacular, and I was hooked immediately. JLA #61 and JLE #37 were among the books I started my first LCS pull list with, so I still have a soft spot for this era, even though many fans have come to dislike it in hindsight. It did seem like Jurgens' heart was with the Superman titles, and JLA got treated like a satellite book of that franchise. Once Superman was out of the picture, we got "Destiny's Hand", (arguably Jurgens' high point) but his last few issues still read as very rushed. Another thing that I remember sticking out was how Fire and Ice were written. In particular, I didn't care for the lovesick schoolgirl crush Tora suddenly had on Superman. In fact, I loved what Dan Vado was doing with Ice right up until her death!

    The OP doesn't mention Jones' JLE, but for much of that era it was the more consistent book. Like Jurgens and Superman, Jones was also writing Green Lantern - his team leaders solo book - but to me it felt like it's own thing, despite the tight continuity. Even after the name change to JLI, the book still felt more consistent despite some soapy turns here and there.

    Although 1989's JLI Annual #3 was one of my first DC books, I didn't get around to going back and reading the entirety of Giffen & DeMatteis' run until right before "Zero Hour", which ended the Jurgens/Vado & Jones era for the most part. It was a departure to be sure, but I enjoyed it.
    Destiny's Hand is fantastic and as much as it is sacrilege to say, better than even most of the Giffen/Dematteis run. Though as a whole, Jurgens' JLA pales in comparison to the JLI era.

  11. #11
    Three Legged Member married guy's Avatar
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    I really enjoyed Jurgen's Justice League run.
    As others have mentioned, Destiny's Hand was great.
    He certainly ended with a whimper, but for the most part he did a solid job.
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  12. #12

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    Jurgens' run on the League was abysmally written. Gone went the rich characterization of characters, replaced by shallow one-dimensionality. Jurgens' heart clearly was with the Superman books; in fact, this might as well have been retitled Superman and the Justice League. In point of fact, I have absolutely no recollection of "Destiny's Hand," no matter how much it's being praised.

    If anything, Jurgens' run read like a refutation of Giffen and DeMatteis, only by somebody with nowhere near as much skill.

  13. #13
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timber Wolf-By-Night View Post
    Jurgens' run on the League was abysmally written. Gone went the rich characterization of characters, replaced by shallow one-dimensionality. Jurgens' heart clearly was with the Superman books; in fact, this might as well have been retitled Superman and the Justice League. In point of fact, I have absolutely no recollection of "Destiny's Hand," no matter how much it's being praised.
    As a matter of fact, the collected volumes of Jurgens run *are* titled Superman and the Justice League America!

    You really should give "Destiny's Hand" another shot. The issues are usually available in a nearby bargain bin.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeIsILL View Post
    I've read some stories such as the Bloodwynd saga and the one where they had to fight Dreamcatcher (or whatever his name is).

    It was pretty good, no clue why people think the 90s are bad.
    Dreamslayer of the Extremists is the gent your thinking of.

    The only arc I picked up is the much talked about Destiny's Hand arc. Pretty fun. Supposedly the storyline featuring a Justice League that seized control of their world was supposedly one of the influences on Bruce Timm and his production of the seminal episode of Justice League , A Better World, introducing the rogue versions of the JL, the Justice Lords.

  15. #15
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Destiny's Hand was good, but up until then I found his JLA a bit stiff.
    Beetle, Fire, Ice and Guy lost a lot of personality and he hard time connecting with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timber Wolf-By-Night View Post
    Jurgens' run on the League was abysmally written. Gone went the rich characterization of characters, replaced by shallow one-dimensionality. Jurgens' heart clearly was with the Superman books; in fact, this might as well have been retitled Superman and the Justice League. In point of fact, I have absolutely no recollection of "Destiny's Hand," no matter how much it's being praised.

    If anything, Jurgens' run read like a refutation of Giffen and DeMatteis, only by somebody with nowhere near as much skill.
    I really liked his Panic in the Sky.
    And I felt that it was a Justice League-worthy story.

    I actually expected something along that line.

    But he failed to raise up the JLI core members to that level, and instead tried to write like someone else which only weakened his characterizations.

    It's probably good that he had Superman, Booster Gold and Maxima to fall back on. I just think that he personally didn't care for Beetle, Fire, Ice or Guy.
    Which isn't surprising because any DC creator or reader would be hard pressed to care for them unless they actually read the Giffen/DeMatteis run.
    While the Giffen/DeMatteis run was well received and had its fans, a lot of creators didn't like it and wrote it off as a parody.
    Last edited by Lee Stone; 06-26-2020 at 05:37 PM.
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