Wonder Woman in the Justice League show is better than people give credit for

[DisneyBoy]

Damn. Reading all of this makes happy I never watched beyond the pilot episode.

Honestly, the show has a lot of positive qualities if you look beyond their treatment of Wonder Woman. If you enjoy Batman and Superman and other various DC characters, it's a well-crafted series, especially once it goes Unlimited and features more characters and tighter storytelling.

If you just want to see what they did with Wonder Woman it's definitely a very mixed bag but the episodes to check out are:

Paradise Lost - which at least has some good staging in the final act

Fury - which is kind of meh, but expands on Amazonian ideologies and establishes Wonder Woman's relationship with Hawkgirl

The Savage Time - where she gets to meet Steve Trevor, a highlight of the series

Tabula Rasa - not really a focus episode for her, but one that allows her to finally develop a friendship

Maid of Honor - where there is some nice animation and Diana doesn't come off as badly as she does elsewhere

Starcrossed - which is one of the best stories in the DCAU, and Diana gets one really big moment to shine

For The Man Who Has Everything - where she gets a slightly bigger role than she had in the original comic story

This Little Piggy - which introduces Circe, while sidelining Di

Hawk and Dove - which expands a bit more on her mythology although not with much finesse

The Balance - which provides some answers to questions people have been asking the whole show...sorta

To Another Shore - where she gets to fight Giganta, and her closest friendship is further explored a little


....aaand those are pretty much the episodes. If you do decide to give them a watch, start up a new thread because I'm sure fans would be happy to hear your thoughts as someone processing her characterization on those shows for the first time.

[DochaDocha]

I thought one of the things that really could've kickstarted Wonder Woman in the DCAU is if she had a two-part episode in Superman: the Animated Series, like how Aquaman, the GLC, the Flash, Dr. Fate, the Fourth World Characters, etc. all got introductions. As far as I know, WW was completely off-limits, so all she got was a throwaway line where Lois responds to Mala sarcastically, saying, "Right, and I'm Wonder Woman," or something along those lines. I think that would've been a game-changer.

[Gaius]

That it took them as long as did to give the lasso it’s actual stated abilities was also a fairly bone-headed decision on their part. Be like mandating Superman can’t fly or use heat vision because other characters could fly or make energy blasts.

[DisneyBoy]

Timm did design Wonder Woman for his Superman Animated Series, so I think it was in the works to some degree. Perhaps if the show had continued its fourth season - Legacy was never intended to be a series finale - we might have seen a Justice League episode. But then again perhaps we wouldn't, I'm not really sure how they would have handled things from a legal standpoint.

Honestly, even if Diana had had a two-part origin episode in Superman, it would have still had to be a Superman episode. Superman really isn't necessary to the telling of Diana's origin, not that the Justice League is either of course, but my point is more that I'm still not sure we would have had a terrific Wonder Woman introduction. This group of men really didn't know what to do with the character. I imagine at most if she had debuted on the Superman show, we would have seen the Amazons and.....maybe Circe or Ares? Maybe? But that's probably about it.

I think it's more likely they would have just shoehorned her into a Justice League team up style episode with Aquaman and Kyle and the Flash and Superman battling something together.

[Frontier]

I thought one of the things that really could've kickstarted Wonder Woman in the DCAU is if she had a two-part episode in Superman: the Animated Series, like how Aquaman, the GLC, the Flash, Dr. Fate, the Fourth World Characters, etc. all got introductions. As far as I know, WW was completely off-limits, so all she got was a throwaway line where Lois responds to Mala sarcastically, saying, "Right, and I'm Wonder Woman," or something along those lines. I think that would've been a game-changer.

Timm did design Wonder Woman for his Superman Animated Series, so I think it was in the works to some degree. Perhaps if the show had continued its fourth season - Legacy was never intended to be a series finale - we might have seen a Justice League episode. But then again perhaps we wouldn't, I'm not really sure how they would have handled things from a legal standpoint.

Honestly, even if Diana had had a two-part origin episode in Superman, it would have still had to be a Superman episode. Superman really isn't necessary to the telling of Diana's origin, not that the Justice League is either of course, but my point is more that I'm still not sure we would have had a terrific Wonder Woman introduction. This group of men really didn't know what to do with the character. I imagine at most if she had debuted on the Superman show, we would have seen the Amazons and.....maybe Circe or Ares? Maybe? But that's probably about it.

I think it's more likely they would have just shoehorned her into a Justice League team up style episode with Aquaman and Kyle and the Flash and Superman battling something together.

I believe there were plans or ideas for a Captain Marvel and Justice League episodes on S:TAS.

[Devaishwarya]

I LOVED Wonder Woman in JL and JLU.

[Psy-lock]

If you just want to see what they did with Wonder Woman it's definitely a very mixed bag but the episodes to check out are:

I'd also add Grudge Match. Not much Diana in it, but she gets a cool action sequence.

[DochaDocha]

Honestly, even if Diana had had a two-part origin episode in Superman, it would have still had to be a Superman episode. Superman really isn't necessary to the telling of Diana's origin, not that the Justice League is either of course, but my point is more that I'm still not sure we would have had a terrific Wonder Woman introduction. This group of men really didn't know what to do with the character. I imagine at most if she had debuted on the Superman show, we would have seen the Amazons and.....maybe Circe or Ares? Maybe? But that's probably about it.

I think it's more likely they would have just shoehorned her into a Justice League team up style episode with Aquaman and Kyle and the Flash and Superman battling something together.

I think Flash and Aquaman's intros in STAS are kind of whatever, but Kyle Raynor GL's is pretty good. Superman, of course, was featured in the episode, but he's completely sidelined so the climax could be about GL. We also get intros to Abin Sur, Sinestro, and the Guardians in that episode, and considering the context of putting that into a Superman episode, I think it's pretty well done. And the Fourth World guys? Probably the best non-BTAS part of the DCAU was how they integrated the Kirby-verse.

If they took the best elements of the various characters' introductions in STAS and made an intro for WW, you could've gotten something really good, much better than the abbreviated version they were left with for JL.

[Largo161]

Honestly, the show has a lot of positive qualities if you look beyond their treatment of Wonder Woman. If you enjoy Batman and Superman and other various DC characters, it's a well-crafted series, especially once it goes Unlimited and features more characters and tighter storytelling.

If you just want to see what they did with Wonder Woman it's definitely a very mixed bag but the episodes to check out are:

Paradise Lost - which at least has some good staging in the final act

Fury - which is kind of meh, but expands on Amazonian ideologies and establishes Wonder Woman's relationship with Hawkgirl

The Savage Time - where she gets to meet Steve Trevor, a highlight of the series

Tabula Rasa - not really a focus episode for her, but one that allows her to finally develop a friendship

Maid of Honor - where there is some nice animation and Diana doesn't come off as badly as she does elsewhere

Starcrossed - which is one of the best stories in the DCAU, and Diana gets one really big moment to shine

For The Man Who Has Everything - where she gets a slightly bigger role than she had in the original comic story

This Little Piggy - which introduces Circe, while sidelining Di

Hawk and Dove - which expands a bit more on her mythology although not with much finesse

The Balance - which provides some answers to questions people have been asking the whole show...sorta

To Another Shore - where she gets to fight Giganta, and her closest friendship is further explored a little


....aaand those are pretty much the episodes. If you do decide to give them a watch, start up a new thread because I'm sure fans would be happy to hear your thoughts as someone processing her characterization on those shows for the first time.

Thank you for putting together a reference list for me!

[DisneyBoy]

No problem at all...

I'd also add Grudge Match. Not much Diana in it, but she gets a cool action sequence.

I think I forgot about that one because all Diana does is briefly fight and over the course of the other episodes you see plenty of that, LOL. And again, even in her one line of dialogue she does not come off well. I think I rolled my eyes the first time I saw that. Sometimes it really did feel like they were trying to make her as unlikable as possible.

So to round out my previous list....

Injustice For All - Cheetah appears. Prepare to be disappointed!

A Knight of Shadows - Diana meets Etrigan (really more of a Martian Manhunter story)

Eclipsed - Diana rages...whether sober...or under the influence!

Kid Stuff - Diana gets turned into a kid! And guess what? She's still annoying!

Grudge Match - she punches! She kicks! She disappoints with a single line of dialogue!

[marhawkman]

In fairness, If you say WW's depiction was disappointing... how many were better than hers? You seem to think Batman, Superman were, but anyone else? If you count the comics, there was a total of 71 members of the League.

[fong03]

I liked JL and JLU for the most part. I thought the show did feature her in a number of episodes. Her depiction wasn't consistent. She did have good moments, like her relationship with J'onn and I liked when she spoke to Hawkgirl about her faith.

What I did not care for was how her power levels were depicted. She was the damsel in distress WAY too often, having to be saved by Batman, Superman, and GL more than once. And don't even get me started on her losing to Aquaman. (No, the water being nearby does not make it ok!) She did get a couple of cool fight scenes, but they were usually against fairly weak foes. I heard that Superman fans complained about their "fight" in the first season and it seemed like the show went out of its way to correct that later on.

I love Susan as Diana though. She will always be the voice of Wonder Woman for me.

[SiegePerilous02]

In fairness, If you say WW's depiction was disappointing... how many were better than hers? You seem to think Batman, Superman were, but anyone else? If you count the comics, there was a total of 71 members of the League.

I think pretty much every one of the main members at least was better than her, and plenty of the one-shot or recurring characters as well.

I think Hal Jordan in his less than one minute of screen time came off better lol.

[Gaius]

In fairness, If you say WW's depiction was disappointing... how many were better than hers? You seem to think Batman, Superman were, but anyone else? If you count the comics, there was a total of 71 members of the League.

I don't think Superman himself wasn't written that much better than she was in JL/JLU but he already he at least had a decent depiction in his own show and unlike her, his larger rogues gallery and world got far better treatment than just about any WW rogue who showed up.

[Primal Slayer]

In fairness, If you say WW's depiction was disappointing... how many were better than hers? You seem to think Batman, Superman were, but anyone else? If you count the comics, there was a total of 71 members of the League.

If you look at the characters who would essentially be on par with her as far no previous show to flesh them out - Flash/MM/Hawkgirl/Green Lantern...MM/Hawkgirl/GL all got really great character development and storylines throughout their runs on JL/JLU. The Flash is kind of the opposite of Diana wherein he's mainly used for comedic reliefs and is practically Wally West. The bigger the characters are (WW/TF) the least appealing they tend to be to showrunners imo. Often it seems like they think they are not able to take the kind of liberties they want to with them so they'll focus on the smaller ones.