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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    The Five gave her back her powers, all Apocalypse did was do kill her with a pointy sword. If she wanted to die that badly all she need to was ask for Wolverine. Same result. But Apocalypse getting a chance to kill someone with public approval must be win for him, finally his obsession of solving problems with death pays off.
    I saw it more as a chance for melody to win her death, to not go down as a powerless victim and probably be reborn the same but to go down a fighter and arise full of strength and will.
    it wasn about apocalypse asserting his dominance but for melody to assert her's, and her will and desire to die and be reborn as a full person and to not just survive but to overcome that dangers and violence that comes with being a mutant, but standing victorious after.

    But if you read it that way its valid too, reading whats on the surface and running with it is a viable option too :P quicker too, props to you !

  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    what;s the part of their somber faces and the guthries being held back was popcorn to you? be a dear and post the scan.
    Watching it and doing nothing means that they support it. It is not normal and not what X-Men would allow, accept or do at all.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purplevit View Post
    Watching it and doing nothing means that they support it. It is not normal and not what X-Men would allow, accept or do at all.
    OFC it's not normal, the x-men have never been, where have you been they have always been a bunch of weirdos.
    Worldbuilding isnt just tiki bars, it can and should go deeper especially in an imortal species with a horrorfying, violent yet somehow favoured relantionship with death.

    "allow it" how many times did the x-men send teens dressed in an x-men uniform unprepared to the world to fight something like apocalypse? we have like entire generations of that, catch up love.
    Last edited by Ferro; 06-24-2020 at 01:57 AM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    I saw it more as a chance for melody to win her death, to not go down as a powerless victim and probably be reborn the same but to go down a fighter and arise full of strength and will.
    it wasn about apocalypse asserting his dominance but for melody to assert her's, and her will and desire to die and be reborn as a full person and to not just survive but to overcome that dangers and violence that comes with being a mutant, but standing victorious after.
    This isn't about Melody, she's the guinea pig. She's only there because Apocalypse planned every step of her "journey." She's just following a script, he even tells her what to do. Without Apocalypse none of this happens and his solution is: death by stabbing. You could replace him with anyone willing to kill her and she's get her powers back. This is science, not magic. Apocalypse has nothing to do with how the Five resurrect mutants, the Crucible is simply a method to get former mutants to die without overloading the Five, which Apocalypse has exploited with ritualistic trappings. Because that's what he does, he creates death. And cults.

    But if you read it that way its valid too, reading whats on the surface and running with it is a viable option too :P quicker too, props to you !
    You've got it backwards, the symbolism is the surface and what he's doing is faithful to Apocalypse nature.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    This isn't about Melody, she's the guinea pig. She's only there because Apocalypse planned every step of her "journey." She's just following a script, he even tells her what to do. Without Apocalypse none of this happens and his solution is: death by stabbing. You could replace him with anyone willing to kill her and she's get her powers back. This is science, not magic. Apocalypse has nothing to do with how the Five resurrect mutants, the Crucible is simply a method to get former mutants to die without overloading the Five, which Apocalypse has exploited with ritualistic trappings. Because that's what he does, he creates death. And cults.



    You've got it backwards, the symbolism is the surface and what he's doing is faithful to Apocalypse nature.
    mhhh hmm sure thing!
    Im totaly gonna keep this in my mind for more than a 1 second

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    mhhh hmm sure thing!
    Im totaly gonna keep this in my mind for more than a 1 second
    Ok, how you think the Crucible works.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Ok, tell me how you think the Crucible works.
    mark an apointment with sharon

  8. #53
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    OFC it's not normal, the x-men have never been, where have you been they have always been a bunch of weirdos.
    Worldbuilding isnt just tiki bars, it can and should go deeper especially in an imortal species with a horrorfying, violent yet somehow favoured relantionship with death.

    "allow it" how many times did the x-men send teens dressed in an x-men uniform unprepared to the world to fight something like apocalypse? we have like entire generations of that, catch up love.
    Nah. Apoc killing people on arena and X-Men just watching is forced plot and not a real world building. It is just a very forced plot that is not logical for X-Men. It would work only for Apoc and his followers. X-Men won`t accept it. There is a huge difference between teen X characters trying to save the world while he or she can die and a fight on arena where your friends are just get killed by psycho villain and everyone are watching this show.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purplevit View Post
    Nah. Apoc killing people on arena and X-Men just watching is forced plot and not a real world building. It is just a very forced plot that is not logical for X-Men. It would work only for Apoc and his followers. X-Men won`t accept it. There is a huge difference between teen X characters trying to save the world while he or she can die and a fight on arena where your friends are just get killed by psycho villain and everyone are watching this show.
    because it's about krakoa the nation not the team itself?
    they voted, apocalypse came to a sugestion and why not when death no longer means anything as of now? it is worldbuilding to showcasse a decision only a society that has the history and the resources mutants have as of now would make.
    They already failed melody once and she barely escaped the bus incident, when it comes to THAT generation of mutants the x-men really need to pay lip service since their incompetency was legendary.
    "trying to save the world" still teens, still kids, still dead, still not many issues there and there wasnt a way to bring them back then.
    Last edited by Ferro; 06-24-2020 at 02:14 AM.

  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    because it's about krakoa the nation not the team itself?
    they voted, apocalypse came to a sugestion and why not when death no longer means anything as of now? it is worldbuilding to showcasse a decision only a society that has the history and the resources mutants have as of now would make.
    They already failed melody once and she barely escaped the bus incident, when it comes to THAT generation of mutants the x-men really need to pay lip service since their incompetency was legendary.
    "trying to save the world" still teens, still kids, still dead, still not many issues there and there wasnt a way to bring them back then.
    You want to say that most mutants who are not on main X-men team would be ok with Apoc slaughtering their friends on arena show? I sincerely doubt it. It is normal that you like this ritual or story but it is not a logical development for X-Men, mutants or Krakoa as country. Krakoa is just a name, mutants are the same. It is a very, very forced plot that may sound cool to some people but definitely not a logical development or world building. There are a lot of possibilities to bring them back and to send them to a Brand new Apoc slaughtering show that airs live every Sunday morning on Krakoa TV, lol.

  11. #56
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    As I understand it, the person wanting their powers back has to die anyway. The point of the Crucible is that the ex-mutant who wants their powers back has to want it bad enough to be willing to die fighting for it, because the Five can't possibly handle rebirthing every single former mutant who wants their powers back in this way, and setting up a painful 'you better want it *this* much...' Crucible in the way weeds out the not-as-strongly-motivated among them.

    Since the term 'flattening the curve' is a thing now, that's kind of what the Crucible is doing. Everyone is gonna want to be reborn with powers (or different powers, or better powers, or a bigger peen, or whatever) *eventually,* but the Five can't possibly do all that at once. The Crucible helps 'flatten the curve' by putting those who aren't so strongly motivated at the back of the line.

    And yeah, Apocalypse gets to do the stabbing. Whatever. They *had to die anyway* to initiate the process. Honestly, Selene's probably pissed that Poccy's on the Council and got to volunteer to kill them first, because she at least would have gotten a free lunch out of the deal. "Okay, throw that body on the compost heap. Next up, Sofia Mantega." "Urrrp! Oh gosh, come back tomorrow, I couldn't possibly eat another bite... Unless..., Marius, be a dear and tag in?"

  12. #57
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    As I understand it, the person wanting their powers back has to die anyway. The point of the Crucible is that the ex-mutant who wants their powers back has to want it bad enough to be willing to die fighting for it, because the Five can't possibly handle rebirthing every single former mutant who wants their powers back in this way, and setting up a painful 'you better want it *this* much...' Crucible in the way weeds out the not-as-strongly-motivated among them.

    Since the term 'flattening the curve' is a thing now, that's kind of what the Crucible is doing. Everyone is gonna want to be reborn with powers (or different powers, or better powers, or a bigger peen, or whatever) *eventually,* but the Five can't possibly do all that at once. The Crucible helps 'flatten the curve' by putting those who aren't so strongly motivated at the back of the line.

    And yeah, Apocalypse gets to do the stabbing. Whatever. They *had to die anyway* to initiate the process. Honestly, Selene's probably pissed that Poccy's on the Council and got to volunteer to kill them first, because she at least would have gotten a free lunch out of the deal. "Okay, throw that body on the compost heap. Next up, Sofia Mantega." "Urrrp! Oh gosh, come back tomorrow, I couldn't possibly eat another bite... Unless..., Marius, be a dear and tag in?"
    ^ this. And it was stated on paper that they don't want mass suicides, wasn't it?

    I also would expect Selene and Emplate to step in. Maybe it doesn't happen only through Apocalypse, since otherwise he'd be quite busy.

    And like, in a society without death I'd give zero fs about going on a death match lol. I'd probably be down at the Arena challenging Gorgon to a death match daily. Or jumping off cliffs to see the scenery.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    ^ this. And it was stated on paper that they don't want mass suicides, wasn't it?

    I also would expect Selene and Emplate to step in. Maybe it doesn't happen only through Apocalypse, since otherwise he'd be quite busy.

    And like, in a society without death I'd give zero fs about going on a death match lol. I'd probably be down at the Arena challenging Gorgon to a death match daily. Or jumping off cliffs to see the scenery.
    melody went from a sad teenager who felt like she was missing something trying to be normal to a badass that fought motherefing apocalypse, Id do it too, especially if I had some anger to release

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    ^ this. And it was stated on paper that they don't want mass suicides, wasn't it?
    It's a stupid excuse, there's numerous methods to do this and they can do higher numbers if all it takes is for people to die to be "reborn." If they're really that amoral about making the former mutants die horribly they have various mutants available with powers that can kill entire groups.

    I also would expect Selene and Emplate to step in. Maybe it doesn't happen only through Apocalypse, since otherwise he'd be quite busy.
    Agreed. Selene's busy in Captain America's book, however.

    And like, in a society without death I'd give zero fs about going on a death match lol. I'd probably be down at the Arena challenging Gorgon to a death match daily. Or jumping off cliffs to see the scenery.
    It's a society without death, not a society without trauma. They'll feel every cut, they'll bleed to death - which is how Melody went out. Despite what the comics shows dying of those types of injuries isn't meant to be dying peacefully. This isn't about "challenging" that's pointless theatrics, which is easily co-opted by nationalism and cult rituals of Apocalypse own creation. If he was truly "benevolent" he'd just kill Melody right as she got in the arena, instead he made her beg for it.

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    It's not a stupid excuse, it makes perfect sense and also it showz they're not as amoral as you want them to be. You can't have hundreds of people killing themselves all over the world because A) they can't handle that much people with only The Five B) that would mean the dead would stop living until they can handle them and that would make other people suffer too C) even if they gave them priority, it would still overwork The Five. Turning it into a challenge helps all of it.

    They have telepaths and empaths to remove trauma. But like, I'll stop debating the Crucible with you since we'll never agree and it's going to turn into two people doing monologues.

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