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  1. #61
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    Marvel’s doing a What If? Cartoon, and even back under Lucas, they had the “Infinities” label to do something similar, especially in the Star Wars Tales comic series - Vader vs Maul, Indiana Jones tracking Bigfoot and finding a crashed Millennium Falcon with a deja-v-evoking skeleton in the seat and “Bigfoot watching from the sidelines, a random tale of a slave taking advantage of a clumsy Sith Apprentice to replace him on the rule of two, the first appearance of the woman who was Boba Fett’s wife...

    I don’t see them doing anything as firm as retconning anything film-related.

    But honestly, if I were LFL, I might consider starting something like Star Wars Tales on the basis that an ambiguously-canonical series would allow creators to do what they wanted without worrying about stepping on any toes for future films.

    That’s the kind of thing that could maybe be used without regard to the Sequel Trilogy.
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  2. #62
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    They already have and still use the Legends label. You can still get reprints of the Darkhorse material and those novels go for dirt cheap since they've been around for so long. So if anybody wants to see the alternative sequel trilogy, it's not like you can't get Dark Empire.
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  3. #63
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Why not both?

    Star Trek has the Abramsverse
    Star Wars already did it to the EU.
    Thing is, those were created for the purposes of new story-telling opportunities, not just because "some people hated those movies/TV shows/books/whatever."

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Just put it under "Extended Universe" with the rest of the stuff.
    Thing is, the movies are source material, the tie-ins are not. Granted, stuff like this has happened before (as I recall, the past couple Terminator movies elected to ignore certain sequels, resulting in three or four different continuities branching off the original film), but not likely.

    Bottom line is the sequel trilogy is canon and it almost certainly will stay canon until the time comes that it gets a reboot. It's high time to just accept that and move on, whatever that looks like to you.
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  4. #64
    Fantastic Member basbash99's Avatar
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    I doubt they will retcon the ST, but i wouldn't be surprised if they set the next film(s) in a time period far enough away from the ST that we don't get many references to the ST characters or events. Not sure the general audience is all that eager to revisit any of these characters, and it doesn't seem like any of the actors are particularly eager to return either. tbh i think i'm kind of done with star wars myself. cautiously optimistic about Mando S2 but that show could easily go off the rails if they aren't careful (imo).

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member Starter Set's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basbash99 View Post
    I doubt they will retcon the ST, but i wouldn't be surprised if they set the next film(s) in a time period far enough away from the ST that we don't get many references to the ST characters or events.
    Even after all that BS we had to deal with since Disney made Georgie 4 billion bucks richer i must admit that i'm kinda curious to see where they are going to take the franchise next.

    I really, really hope for something fresh. No distant cousin of Vader who of course is a god level force user or Luke's secret twins he had with a female Ewok after the victory banquet on Endor.

    No, fresh.

    Come on Mickey, to boldly go where no Star Wars movie has gone before!! You once made a movie about a flying nanny, where is that adventurous spririt now eh? Where?!!

  6. #66
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    Even after all that BS we had to deal with since Disney made Georgie 4 billion bucks richer i must admit that i'm kinda curious to see where they are going to take the franchise next.

    I really, really hope for something fresh. No distant cousin of Vader who of course is a god level force user or Luke's secret twins he had with a female Ewok after the victory banquet on Endor.

    No, fresh.

    Come on Mickey, to boldly go where no Star Wars movie has gone before!! You once made a movie about a flying nanny, where is that adventurous spririt now eh? Where?!!
    George Lucas' Star Wars is an entirely original creation made by one man -- new story, new characters. Most of Disney's stuff are adaptations and not original screenplays. So it's odd to expect Disney to do something fresh when their business model has never really been involved in doing fresh stuff to start with.

    To the extent that Disney ever had an adventurous spirit in the true sense of the term it ended a long time ago. Most of its history, its business model was to adapt public domain fairy tales and children's books and build on high production versions of that, so that they serve as lasting custodians of fairy tales for several generations of young children. That "movie about a flying nanny" was an adaptation of a book written by P. L. Travers. In the Bob Iger era, the next level is simply use that accumulated money to buy stuff so as to become custodians by vertical integration of major nerd properties. Disney didn't do much or anything to introduce any new stories, or new IP. It's all acquisitions of proven slam dunks...the MCU was up and running before Disney bought it out. Lucasfilm with Indiana Jones and Star Wars speaks for itself.

    The fact is, that these aren't indications of people who want to do something entirely new, or are capable of doing anything new and fresh.

    The hard truth is that anyone capable of coming up with an idea as fresh, new, and exciting as Star Wars would probably go it alone and do it by themselves rather than work with Disney. Most people who come into Star Wars would be pretty reluctant about creating brand new characters without tying into existing stuff because at the end of the day, that character will not really belong to you.

  7. #67
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    George Lucas' Star Wars is an entirely original creation made by one man -
    George Lucas's Star Wars was pretty horrible. Much of what we think of when we think Star Wars comes from his artists, editors, design team and various other collaborators.

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    George Lucas's Star Wars was pretty horrible. Much of what we think of when we think Star Wars comes from his artists, editors, design team and various other collaborators.
    Alrighty then, name which aspects come from which individuals and explain to me why any of his collaborators on their own never did anything like THX-1138 and American Graffiti or his student experimental shorts all by themselves?

    Star Wars in the OT and PT is conceptually and narratively entirely George Lucas' creation from start to finish, top to bottom, diagonally and side-ways, and all the other different sides you can come up with. Without George Lucas it would not exist. Lucas created all the characters in those movies, he named all those characters, he concieved the entire aesthetic of the movies, the idea of the Force, the concept of light-saber battles, the visual designs of the droids. He came up with all the major plot beats in those movies.

    That's all the work of one man, and it's the man from Modesto, who lives up to the name of his place by generally keeping quiet and off the internet while spurned producers and fan-parasites like RLM say the most obnoxious libellous things about him.

  9. #69
    Mighty Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    That's all the work of one man, and it's the man from Modesto, who lives up to the name of his place by generally keeping quiet and off the internet while spurned producers and fan-parasites like RLM, say the most obnoxious libellous things about him.
    I must admit it's been fun watching Red Letter Media eat their words after Disney gave them everything they asked for. They wanted JJ? They got JJ, lol. Also they are still stubbornly saying that the prequel trilogy was worse because hating the prequel trilogy is what put them on the map. Don't get me wrong, RLM gets a lot of stuff right but they have their blind spots.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  10. #70
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    I must admit it's been fun watching Red Letter Media eat their words after Disney gave them everything they asked for. They wanted JJ? They got JJ, lol. Also they are still stubbornly saying that the prequel trilogy was worse because hating the prequel trilogy is what put them on the map.
    They should consider themselves fortunate that Lucas didn't go out of his way to break them up and sue them for libel and misinformation and also copyright claims which he could well have done. Lucas is famously generously and sportive and welcoming of parody videos of Star Wars (from Hardware Wars downwards).

    These RLM idiots would not be of any concern to anyone if it had not been for the great success and fame of Star Wars and the prequels (on one hand) and the rise of YouTube and the internet. By themselves, they are nothing and offer no real insight and original views.

    Don't get me wrong, RLM gets a lot of stuff right but they have their blind spots.
    I don't think they got anything right. I know that for a lot of people who saw those videos, it kind of provided an introduction to some behind-the-scenes movie-making terminology (i.e. shot/reverse shot, continuity editing, and other parts of film-making) and I get that this was a gateway for many people and it made them more analytical about film-making, and for those viewers, it's nice they found something of value. At the same time bad education, even when that education provides you some useful, if rather basic, information, can be harmful and I think RLM created an entire generation of film commentariat that had a very restrictive and narrow-bound idea of good film-making and came away with wrong ideas of what film direction actually entails.

    Part of the many things RLM gets wrong is that they perform film-historical malpractice and thanks to them, we have an entire Lucas-Bashing cabal that much like certain people in the White House operate on lies and misinformation:
    -- They quote sources against Lucas without bothering to check and vet those sources or bother to see whether the information is one-sided or not. The right thing that any historian would do is look at multiple sources.
    -- They have quote Gary Kurtz and others who had a falling out with Lucas so obviously it will be very negatively colored. Gary Kurtz for instance quit production (or if we are being honest basically ordered to resign) because of his mishandling of the production of TESB which went over-budget and over-schedule and led to Lucas hiring a new producer and taking out an extra loan to get it done. Since then, he hasn't done anything of note. Kurtz was never anyone to order or countermand Lucas, Lucas used him as one of many sounding boards. Kurtz then later claimed that he left because he was worried about ROTJ being too light-hearted while he wanted to go as dark as TESB*, but he left before any serious work on pre-production of ROTJ got underway, so he was never in any position to reject that direction anyway.
    -- The stuff about Marcia Lucas singlehandedly saving ANH is so overblown that it's funny. The ridiculous part is that it's easily disprovable. If you look at the credits of people who won the Oscar for editing ANH, you will find Marcia Lucas alongside Paul Hirsch and Richard Chew. She was a co-recipient. Marcia Lucas performed crucial work on the editing of ANH after the original editor (John Jympson, actually a capable editor in his own right but quite wrong for the project**) made a mess of things, but she actually left when Paul Hirsch came in (for the obvious fact that she was busy editing New York New York for Martin Scorsese). Paul Hirsch actually worked with Lucas in the final edit of ANH, and he wrote a book that came out last year talking about it. So even the idea that Marcia Lucas singlehandedly was responsible for the film is ridiculous.


    * Kurtz's idea about wanting to push Star Wars into a darker direction is itself dubious because he says it almost as if that was his idea. It was Lucas who wanted TESB to be more of a focused horror film (he asked Kershner and the crew and the cast to see The Exorcist and other horror movies to get in the mood) because he saw TESB as a low-stakes character-driven middle-part. And again TESB is a movie where no characters die, it's the only one in the OT, PT, ST that can claim that. So it was never all that dark, but Lucas wanted it to feel darker than it was, and an entire generation was manipulated and fooled into projecting onto TESB some other movie than what's there.

    ** Jympson like most of the crew and some of the cast (Harrison Ford) were hassles for Lucas because they all expected Star Wars to be a campy spoofy movie, a sendup to serials and didn't really get the tone that Lucas wanted to go for. Convincing them to take the movies seriously was Lucas' biggest headache on that project. Jympson (who edited A Hard Day's Night) came from a documentary tradition and Lucas expected him to approach the stuff seriously but he instead used the most campy takes and cut in at the oddest places when making the rough cut (which is the original grand assemblage out of which the movie is sculpted out of) and that appalled Lucas because of how badly cut and spliced it was. Marcia Lucas salvaged this rough cut and got to using the best takes to give Lucas and Hirsch the most options. This was definitely important and crucial but the problem with the rough cut was Jympson's malfeasance not Lucas' direction, so A) Marcia Lucas saved the movie from Jympson and not Lucas B) She did very basic and competent work that was second nature for any professional like her, and not some exceptional magic act of sorcery.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 07-08-2020 at 05:46 PM.

  11. #71
    Mighty Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I don't think they got anything right.
    Oh I wasn't taking about Star Wars, they got all of that wrong. They are amusing when they talk about terrible z-grade stuff.
    Last edited by Anthony W; 07-08-2020 at 06:07 PM.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  12. #72
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    Im cool with retconning the sequels out of existence. Characters like Finn should be forgotten forever

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