Alan Scott in the Green Lantern 80th Anniversary *spoilers*

[M L A]

Except we don't know how the two Roses were combined post-Crisis. Rose Canton was the original from the Golden Age and Rose Forrest was the Silver Age version. In any case, it seems far more likely the two Roses were combined rather than having seperate Golden Age and Silver/Modern Age versions.

Golden age Rose/Thorn was mentioned at least 2-3 times in JSA (and various whos who for Jade and Obsidian) to have existed to have kids and later died, and the Rose Forrest version was used in Harley Quinn's 00 solo series, BOP, and her own mini series by Simone.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Except we don't know how the two Roses were combined post-Crisis. Rose Canton was the original from the Golden Age and Rose Forrest was the Silver Age version. In any case, it seems far more likely the two Roses were combined rather than having seperate Golden Age and Silver/Modern Age versions.

I'm not very familiar with the Golden Age Thorn, so I'm not sure if this is doable. Given the whole immortality stuff, it would be a nice wrinkle to add continuity-wise.

[Will Evans]

Nah. The Golden Age Thorn died.

But her legacy lived on in her 2 out of 3 kids: Obsidian, Jade (died and came back), Mayflower (died and yet to return).

[CaptCleghorn]

Golden age Rose/Thorn was mentioned at least 2-3 times in JSA (and various whos who for Jade and Obsidian) to have existed to have kids and later died, and the Rose Forrest version was used in Harley Quinn's 00 solo series, BOP, and her own mini series by Simone.

While the GA Earth-Two version did die pre-Crisis, the multiple shifts in reality including and since COIE make anything possible. Also, Bendis' introduction of the immortality factor makes the single Rose/Thorn character the simplest solution. Suicide? While looking successful, it didn't work. Lines said in a book can be retconned.

Rose/Thorn is a character that needs some fleshing out in the post-Flashpoint era. Is the LSH Rose Todd and Jennie's mother? That's the question. If I was writing, I'd lean towards yes as that is the simplest solution. I personally do not like the whole soap opera aspect of Todd and Jennie's births so I don't want to imagine the mechanics of Alan not knowing who she was and now dealing with his own sexuality. It is a mess for me.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

Nah. The Golden Age Thorn died.

But her legacy lived on in her 2 out of 3 kids: Obsidian, Jade (died and came back), Mayflower (died and yet to return).

Contrary to whatever online source you got that from, Mayflower is NOT Thorn's daughter. Somebody misread a word balloon in an Outsiders-Infinity, Inc. crossover from the 80's.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

While the GA Earth-Two version did die pre-Crisis, the multiple shifts in reality including and since COIE make anything possible. Also, Bendis' introduction of the immortality factor makes the single Rose/Thorn character the simplest solution. Suicide? While looking successful, it didn't work. Lines said in a book can be retconned.

Rose/Thorn is a character that needs some fleshing out in the post-Flashpoint era. Is the LSH Rose Todd and Jennie's mother? That's the question. If I was writing, I'd lean towards yes as that is the simplest solution. I personally do not like the whole soap opera aspect of Todd and Jennie's births so I don't want to imagine the mechanics of Alan not knowing who she was and now dealing with his own sexuality. It is a mess for me.

It's not a mess for me. Just because you can't grok it doesn't oblige anybody at DC to retcon something that literally NOBODY ELSE has had any trouble understanding for what, 35 to 50 years?

There were Golden Age villains called Star Sapphire and Evil Star who, surprise surprise, had nothing whatsoever to do with the Silver Age villains with the same names, either. Do you insist they need to be retconned into always being the same characters, too? Hey, lets go whole hog and retcon all the Golden Age characters into being the same characters who had the same hero and villain names in the Silver Age, no matter how different they were! It's too hard and confusing to tell them apart, right?

There's a reason comics companies don't take ideas from their audience. 99 to 100 percent of them are just too damn stupid.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

It's not a mess for me. Just because you can't grok it doesn't oblige anybody at DC to retcon something that literally NOBODY ELSE has had any trouble understanding for what, 35 to 50 years?

There were Golden Age villains called Star Sapphire and Evil Star who, surprise surprise, had nothing whatsoever to do with the Silver Age villains with the same names, either. Do you insist they need to be retconned into always being the same characters, too? Hey, lets go whole hog and retcon all the Golden Age characters into being the same characters who had the same hero and villain names in the Silver Age, no matter how different they were! It's too hard and confusing to tell them apart, right?

There's a reason comics companies don't take ideas from their audience. 99 to 100 percent of them are just too damn stupid.

This seems pointlessly condescending and insulting. We're just a bunch of fans talking about comics here. What are you trying to accomplish by making your point like this?

[Dr. Ellingham]

What if Alan is not outed to his teammates at all, or if he is but not in 1945, but in 2021?

Think about it: although LGBTQ+ representation in comics has improved a lot in the last decade or so, one category that I think has never got that much of a spotlight is the closeted person. And if we get 80 years of real-time continuity to explore that point of view with him, if his teammates are used, in this instance, to showcase the constant change in moral standards, and all of that? What iof people from 80 years ago are just that, when portrayed 80 years ago, and yet, given the opportunity to exist today, **** just changed? Do you still think it would be a bad take?

That's a really good idea - a true writer-ly solution. And extending the earlier analogy, very Mad Men-esque. The only storytelling challenge there is time - tolerance for the LGBTQ community did not even begin until like the late 70s? Early 80s? And it wasn't really...real until the last decade plus. So for the first 40+ years, Alan's story will include a lot of "humanity has yet to evolve...but perhaps one day" notes. Which isn't necessarily bad - it's honest. Just lacking in resolution for a lengthy period.

A workaround would be to show the DCU's morality progress along faster than our world, in part due to the diversity and morality of its superhero role models. Although some might consider that softening history.

Another option, depending on DC's plans, would be to set 1-2 years of stories in the 1940s, and then flash forward to the 1970s and beyond - show the changes in society through the JSA's eyes. Something like DC The New Frontier, but set over several decades instead of just a few years. That could be amazing.

[Dr. Ellingham]

I think it's possible to explore the 1940s superhero world without sugarcoating it like Downton Abbey, nor making the JSA as morally repugnant, yet accurate, as the characters from Mad Men.

Agreed with the first part, and I hope the intent is to tell a sprawling epic about the nature of the world, its evolution, and how our fictional superheroes fit in. If it's anything like DC New Frontier, then - great. But if the intent is to show the era the JSA comes from as a villain in the story? That would be in really, really bad taste. We are all products of our environment, our upbringing, and our genetic history. That's true now, it was just as true then.

As an aside re Mad Men: I'm actually re-watching it now with my Hungarian wife, who grew up without much access to - or interest in - western media. Mad Men is the best thing she's ever seen from the US - because it is literary in scope, and its characters are real. I don't see the characters as morally repugnant - generally. If you look at the character failures of, say, Don Draper and study his background and upbringing...they have clear origins, and make sense. If I'd had the early life he had, I probably would have turned out much the same. (The old saw about walking a mile in a man's shoes, etc.) Ditto the remaining characters. Even Pete Campbell, although he's pretty reprehensible most of the time.

[CaptCleghorn]

It's not a mess for me. Just because you can't grok it doesn't oblige anybody at DC to retcon something that literally NOBODY ELSE has had any trouble understanding for what, 35 to 50 years?

There were Golden Age villains called Star Sapphire and Evil Star who, surprise surprise, had nothing whatsoever to do with the Silver Age villains with the same names, either. Do you insist they need to be retconned into always being the same characters, too? Hey, lets go whole hog and retcon all the Golden Age characters into being the same characters who had the same hero and villain names in the Silver Age, no matter how different they were! It's too hard and confusing to tell them apart, right?

There's a reason comics companies don't take ideas from their audience. 99 to 100 percent of them are just too damn stupid.

Let me be clear about my feelings for Thorn as Jade and Obsidian's mother. I understand and get it fine. I just don't like it. That is a personal thing. There's a big difference between what I would like to see vs, what DC should do. There's a lot going on with putting together dozens of series that I'm not aware of so "should" is something I try not to go there. However, I have no problem with "I like" or "I dislike".

As for the Earth Two and Earth One Rose's there were a lot closer together than just having the same codename. There's currently a Rose/Thorn hanging with the Legion who is part of the continuity. It may be the highest profile any of those characters have ever had. A Rose/Thorn was Todd and Jennie's mother. With Todd and Jennie seen in DClock and presumably coming back and Alan sexuality seemingly being part of his character, the kid's mother is a natural question.

I also am not posting ideas to try to sell DC. I know where I am on the comic writer's level of talent. My posting here is to hopefully get some other posters to go "cool".

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Agreed with the first part, and I hope the intent is to tell a sprawling epic about the nature of the world, its evolution, and how our fictional superheroes fit in. If it's anything like DC New Frontier, then - great. But if the intent is to show the era the JSA comes from as a villain in the story? That would be in really, really bad taste. We are all products of our environment, our upbringing, and our genetic history. That's true now, it was just as true then.

Darwyn's New Frontier and Robinson's Golden Age are exactly what I was thinking, too.

I mean, yeah, this idea could be done badly, but I'd rather hope for the best than assume the worst. Based upon this story, I think they're off to a pretty good start. Granted, Gary Frank elevates everything.

[Myskin]

What really bugs me is Obsidian.
E2 Alan Scott was created as a homosexual character because Obsidian could not be part of earth-2.

Now that regular Alan Scott is homosexual and Obsidian could reappear in continuity again, will they make him homosexual again? Wouldn't it be a cue for those bizarrely homophobic arguments like 'gay parents make their children become gay as well'?

[warzon]

Why wasn't Jade and Obsidian in the Green Lantern 80 Anniversary special.Jade has the same power set n was a Green Lantern once.

[witchboy]

What really bugs me is Obsidian.
E2 Alan Scott was created as a homosexual character because Obsidian could not be part of earth-2.

Now that regular Alan Scott is homosexual and Obsidian could reappear in continuity again, will they make him homosexual again? Wouldn't it be a cue for those bizarrely homophobic arguments like 'gay parents make their children become gay as well'?

I would hope we're at the point when we can just shrug and say, sometimes a gay parent has a gay child and it doesn't mean anything but the law of averages. I once knew a lesbian with two lesbian daughters. It happens.
I wouldn't want the comics written to appease bigoted people anyways, because you're never going to win those people over with any diversity anyways.

[The no face guy]

I just read most of it, some good stories in there. I like the one where Hal sends out all those messages only to find out he's in Vegas.