Alan Scott in the Green Lantern 80th Anniversary *spoilers*

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Making one of the big guns gay would be fine, depending on how they handled it, but it wouldn't be as interesting to me because there are already gay superheroes in the present you can tell those stories with, so there's no reason to retcon one of the modern superheroes into a gay man.

Retconning one of the founders of the JSA into a closeted homosexual allows them to explore that idea in the 1940s, which is a story that no current character would be able to explore. Yeah, they could have retconned a newly created Golden Age superhero into the JSA, but I don't think that would have the same impact because that character didn't actually exist at that time. He'd very likely end up being a footnote like Triumph, the gay superhero that was retroactively inserted into the founding JLA.

The thing is, this doesn't change any of the previous Alan Scott stories. In the previous incarnations of the DCU, you can still have a straight Alan Scott. That version of him still exists out there in the Metaverse. But, in the current DCU, this Alan Scott is gay.

[CaptCleghorn]

I'm not sure what turning Alan gay accomplishes that couldn't be done better by going bigger. If DC wanted to turn an established character gay who never was before, sure they can do it---and I won't rehash why, since that's been amply commented on by others here and I couldn't do better, but IMO it's go big or go home. After all, the JSA people while well liked in comic fandom are basically unknown outside of comics, (though a few are starting to be a bit known with their various depictions on TV Alan isn't one of them, never even having a line in any of his tiny showings), and thus the impact of the move is very limited, which sort of makes it seem like DC is doing this simply to punch a ticket rather than to actually make a difference. Turning a Hal Jordan or Barry Allen gay might be harder, but it would also mean a lot more. It would be a bold move putting DC and WB's money where their mouth is, while this...seems weak sauce at best.

And if Alan can be called a closeted gay man...why not do the same with Hal or Barry? Just a 3 AM thought, for what little it's worth. For me it comes down to what DC and WB are trying to do here, pander, or actually try up representation. This move, which would have almost no impact, seems more the latter, and it seems to me that DC and WB are afraid of trying that with their more marketable characters.

This is a fair assessment. But can't small steps also be welcome and acceptable? Sometimes the "This is good, but it's not enough" response fits. Eschewing steps if those steps don't go far enough seems restrictive for advocacy of causes.

[achilles]

The Ray had his sexuality changed as well.

Constantine I believe is their biggest male lead within LGBTQ.

Again, the Ray is small potatoes. Constantine...is another matter. But he's still not in the top tier.

[achilles]

This is a fair assessment. But can't small steps also be welcome and acceptable? Sometimes the "This is good, but it's not enough" response fits. Eschewing steps if those steps don't go far enough seems restrictive for advocacy of causes.

Certainly your mileage may vary, but that's just my opinion on the subject.

[Will Evans]

Making one of the big guns gay would be fine, depending on how they handled it, but it wouldn't be as interesting to me because there are already gay superheroes in the present you can tell those stories with, so there's no reason to retcon one of the modern superheroes into a gay man.

Diana’s a big gun. For both the JLA and JSA. And she’s known as queer now. Same with her mom Hippolyta.


Off topic. But I’m just now finding out DEO agent Cameron Chase is queer now too.

[Ascended]

They did make one of their biggest guns LBGT. Rucka's last run on Wonder Woman establishes her as bisexual.

Of course, nothing has been done with that since then. But she *is* officially bi.

And that's a whole other pot full of problems. It's great to have more representation and I welcome gay Allan (and bi Diana) with open arms.....but if the publisher won't do anything with this kind of stuff after establishing it then there's no point. The country still has a ways to go with accepting LBGT people so saying one of your biggest brands is bisexual is a big step, but you can't do half measures with an A-list property like that; you gotta push the envelope or stay out of the conversation. I'm Team Steve all the way but at least have Diana acknowledge that she likes women too, maybe check out a good looking girl now and then or something. With Allan I feel like they could explore and utilize his sexuality with more freedom and less pushback than Diana would receive. He's not nearly as big a deal as she is, and the microscope isn't focused on him as tightly.

And I forgot they made the Ray gay. Was it a new Ray, or was it Ray Terrell from the 90's? I had checked out of Orlando's JLA by that point.

[Will Evans]

They did make one of their biggest guns LBGT. Rucka's last run on Wonder Woman establishes her as bisexual.

Of course, nothing has been done with that since then. But she *is* officially bi.

And that's a whole other pot full of problems. It's great to have more representation and I welcome gay Allan (and bi Diana) with open arms.....but if the publisher won't do anything with this kind of stuff after establishing it then there's no point. The country still has a ways to go with accepting LBGT people so saying one of your biggest brands is bisexual is a big step, but you can't do half measures with an A-list property like that; you gotta push the envelope or stay out of the conversation. I'm Team Steve all the way but at least have Diana acknowledge that she likes women too, maybe check out a good looking girl now and then or something. With Allan I feel like they could explore and utilize his sexuality with more freedom and less pushback than Diana would receive. He's not nearly as big a deal as she is, and the microscope isn't focused on him as tightly.

And I forgot they made the Ray gay. Was it a new Ray, or was it Ray Terrell from the 90's? I had checked out of Orlando's JLA by that point.

The Ray Terrell version.

[witchboy]

When it comes to gay/bi characters in DC, when you look at the ones who are being actively used, there's a huge difference in gender.
For women you have Wonder Woman, Catwoman, Harley Quinn, Batwoman,Crush, Thunder and Grace and supporting characters like Talia, Maggie Sawyer, Renee Montoya, Holly Robinson, etc. Some aren't as active as others but there's some big household names there.
For gay men that are currently active there's Aqualad. That's the biggest gay male character DC is using. And then Constantine who is bi. Now Alan Scott is gay. There are others that exist, like Apollo and Midnighter, but not being actively used beyond the odd short story here and there. The Ray and Bunker exist but where are they? Pied Piper shows up every now and then.
There are stories that can be told with a closeted gay Alan Scott in the JSA that haven't been done, not often if at all, so that is interesting. So many people act like gay people didn't exist until Disco.
DC does need to have a better gay male presence. Alan Scott is a step in the right direction, but I would like to see a bigger name come out. It'll never be Batman or Superman, I'm not pushing for that. But a bisexual Nightwing, or someone on that level, is needed.

[CaptCleghorn]

Certainly your mileage may vary, but that's just my opinion on the subject.

I am OK with differences of opinion. And if my explanation of my stand doesn't change yours, that's fine. Yours was a well thought out statement and appreciated even if we have differences of opinion.

[M L A]

So does Alan Scott.

Tbh his love life is a lot more tertiary compared to his kids, JSA, starheart stuff, and the general idea of him of the "big gun", especially compared to other heroes. Molly cameoed like maybe 5 times after GL Quarterly and Underworld Unleashed ended and the 2009 Grundy mini is the most page time she had in a single storyline since Underworld Unleashed and Infinity Inc.

Like it was kinda telling when they revealed new 52 Alan and barely anybody brought up Molly, everybody just complained about Jade and Obsidian being gone.

[Will Evans]

That’s not true. There was a 90s issue of Aquaman (beard, long hair, hook hand) that featured Jay, Joan, Alan, and Molly teaming up with Arthur.

It was the most I saw Molly in thirty years.

[Lvenger]

So does Alan Scott.

I know, I did say I don't like this retcon earlier. However, Molly hasn't had nearly as many interactions with Alan compared to Iris' scenes with Barry or Carol and Hal so it's easier to justify changing Alan's sexuality retroactively than it would be if it were Barry or Hal.

[DragonPiece]

So James Tynion is doing a interview with the word balloon podcast and he said something interesting about this story around 35 minutes in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi8LEFSCVVc


Apparently Dan Didio made a promise back when Earth 2 Alan Scott was revealed to be gay to also make main earth Alan gay as well whenever he was brought back.


It's interesting this was always in the plans way back then, they were just waiting on the right time to bring him back.

[byrd156]

I always think it's better to promote your already established LGBTQ characters or create a new one.

It feels disingenuous to me to change a character in such a fundamental way for no reason than to cover a certain base. Why not do it with Simon or Jessica or that one new girl? They didn't have a built in history with a home life and kids when they came about.

Diversity and representation is important, when it comes across as a business move rather than a creative one it bothers me. It took this long for Alan to come back and start getting stories again, if they just say he's gay and hope that brings readers in and it doesn't, what was it for? Will they just put him back in limbo?

[Will Evans]

So James Tynion is doing a interview with the word balloon podcast and he said something interesting about this story around 35 minutes in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi8LEFSCVVc


Apparently Dan Didio made a promise back when Earth 2 Alan Scott was revealed to be gay to also make main earth Alan gay as well whenever he was brought back.


It's interesting this was always in the plans way back then, they were just waiting on the right time to bring him back.

I’m actually more shocked that Didio planned that eventually the original JSA would be back one day.