Alan Scott in the Green Lantern 80th Anniversary *spoilers*

[andersonh1]

Interesting, have there been any revised continuity you've liked?

I'm sure there has, but not a lot is coming to mind off the top of my head. I guess for me continuity = consistency when it comes to long-form storytelling, and I prefer characters and their history to be consistent with what came before.

I know I enjoyed post-Crisis Superman a lot, so maybe that's a good example, but at the time I started reading I did not know he wasn't the original. I might have felt differently if I had been reading pre-Crisis Superman.

[Ascended]

How many does it take to make it an established part of who the character is? There are indeed more, but I doubt more examples would change minds. Suffice it to say, Alan Scott did indeed love his wife, and I enjoyed seeing a loving, long-term marriage depicted in DC comics.

Well that's basically asking "when are outliers used often enough to become part of the character?" I don't think there's a singular answer to that; it's a case by case basis.

Like, just for example, Superman claims to have a no-kill code. But he's actually killed people in virtually every version across all media platforms. Not *every* version and platform of course, but quite a lot. So "Superman kills" started out as an outlier; a mistake in characterization.....but has been used so often across a wide enough space of time I feel like it's a viable part of his character; Clark doesn't like to kill and avoids it as best as he can....but he's proven, many times, to be willing to do it in extreme circumstances.

As for Allan.....yes, in the highly racist and bigoted 40's he was written as a straight man, just like every other hero created by any publisher. While I generally think a creator's intent and continuity should be honored, it shouldn't be considered sacred and unbreakable. The Golden Age is several continuities behind us too, which makes it carry less weight for me. And Allan LBGT representation can be fit "between the lines" without actually changing much, if anything, on the page. Bear in mind; Allan can love his wife and still be gay. It's just not the kind of love we assumed it was.

Since the Bronze Age, it's damn rare for Allan's narrative to revolve around his love life, and it's damn rare for him to even talk about his wife, unlike, say, Jay Garrick. For Jay, it's common for him to talk about and spend time with Joan on the page. For Allan? It almost never happens. There are examples of it, but those are the uncommon outliers, not the norm. We assumed that's because Allan's a stoic, private person who doesn't talk about his private life at the "office" but it also opens the door for him to be closeted without changing the events of his history.

I'm not trying to change minds or anything, and I respect the dedication to continuity (which I normally share). I'm just explaining why this particular retcon is okay in my book.

[Robanker]

Well that's basically asking "when are outliers used often enough to become part of the character?" I don't think there's a singular answer to that; it's a case by case basis.

Like, just for example, Superman claims to have a no-kill code. But he's actually killed people in virtually every version across all media platforms. Not *every* version and platform of course, but quite a lot. So "Superman kills" started out as an outlier; a mistake in characterization.....but has been used so often across a wide enough space of time I feel like it's a viable part of his character; Clark doesn't like to kill and avoids it as best as he can....but he's proven, many times, to be willing to do it in extreme circumstances.

As for Allan.....yes, in the highly racist and bigoted 40's he was written as a straight man, just like every other hero created by any publisher. While I generally think a creator's intent and continuity should be honored, it shouldn't be considered sacred and unbreakable. The Golden Age is several continuities behind us too, which makes it carry less weight for me. And Allan LBGT representation can be fit "between the lines" without actually changing much, if anything, on the page. Bear in mind; Allan can love his wife and still be gay. It's just not the kind of love we assumed it was.

Since the Bronze Age, it's damn rare for Allan's narrative to revolve around his love life, and it's damn rare for him to even talk about his wife, unlike, say, Jay Garrick. For Jay, it's common for him to talk about and spend time with Joan on the page. For Allan? It almost never happens. There are examples of it, but those are the uncommon outliers, not the norm. We assumed that's because Allan's a stoic, private person who doesn't talk about his private life at the "office" but it also opens the door for him to be closeted without changing the events of his history.

I'm not trying to change minds or anything, and I respect the dedication to continuity (which I normally share). I'm just explaining why this particular retcon is okay in my book.

This is how I felt to a T as well.

I get it. I've heard some fans say they think Power Girl, Nightwing and Lois Lane become LGBT for various reasons and those three I disagree with the change. It's case-by-case for each character and with Alan, it fits very well into his history given what we've come to know about closeted men from a bygone era. Eerily well, to be frank.

As with all retcons, none of them are completely clean, nobody is arguing it doesn't raise any questions, but it at least works for me.

I'm sure tomorrow they'll reveal a different character is LGBT, one I disagree with , and perhaps I'll be pounding the purist gavel then but Alan is one that while I wasn't really for changing him, I can see the positives and am for it so long as the execution is handled well.

For what it's worth, Catwoman was one I felt was particularly hollow for me. I get it, I really do, but Alan's makes a lot more sense than most of these. Bobby Drake this is not.

[Will Evans]

This is how I felt to a T as well.

I get it. I've heard some fans say they think Power Girl, Nightwing and Lois Lane become LGBT for various reasons and those three I disagree with the change. It's case-by-case for each character and with Alan, it fits very well into his history given what we've come to know about closeted men from a bygone era. Eerily well, to be frank.

As with all retcons, none of them are completely clean, nobody is arguing it doesn't raise any questions, but it at least works for me.

I'm sure tomorrow they'll reveal a different character is LGBT, one I disagree with , and perhaps I'll be pounding the purist gavel then but Alan is one that while I wasn't really for changing him, I can see the positives and am for it so long as the execution is handled well.

For what it's worth, Catwoman was one I felt was particularly hollow for me. I get it, I really do, but Alan's makes a lot more sense than most of these. Bobby Drake this is not.

I don’t think Lois or Nightwing.

But Powergirl is a possibility for bi with her shown relationships with Huntress and Atlee.

[achilles]

I don’t think Lois or Nightwing.

But Powergirl is a possibility for bi with her shown relationships with Huntress and Atlee.

Er, no. She's never had any sexual relationship with another female character. Being friends with members of the same sex doesn't mean that you're bi, it means that you're friends with members of your own sex, like nearly everyone in reality.

[Will Evans]

Er, no. She's never had any sexual relationship with another female character. Being friends with members of the same sex doesn't mean that you're bi, it means that you're friends with members of your own sex, like nearly everyone in reality.

She friends with a lot of females. But those two friends in particular.

Especially how Justin, Jimmy and Amanda wrote Karen and Atlee in their run.

[achilles]

She friends with a lot of females. But those two friends in particular.

Especially how Justin, Jimmy and Amanda wrote Karen and Atlee in their run.

So Ted Kord and Booster are also gay? And no, there was absolutely nothing in the run of Palmiotti and Connor that at all suggested she is bi, and nothing before that, either. A certain kind of fan fiction thinking notwithstanding.

[Ascended]

This is how I felt to a T as well.

I'm sure tomorrow they'll reveal a different character is LGBT, one I disagree with , and perhaps I'll be pounding the purist gavel then but Alan is one that while I wasn't really for changing him, I can see the positives and am for it so long as the execution is handled well.

Yup, pretty much.

I usually don't like retcons. Didn't like Kyle Rayner being half Mexican, nor did I like Dick Grayson being Romani. DC never did anything with that; it was just....there, for the sake of checking off a box. Discovering a new side of their heritage never factored into any story, and you'd never know it unless a fan said something online since the comics don't even reference it. There wasn't anything on the page where you could say "Oh yeah, this makes sense now" like you can with Allan.

It's fine that Dick's Romani and Kyle's half Mexican, but if DC doesn't do anything with that then there's no damn point.

With Allan being gay, not only does it "fill in the blanks" of his character and history, but it can provide stories going forward and will *have* to be used; Allan has kids and a wife and you can't sweep him being gay under the rug. Kyle and Dick? Those were retcons I dislike precisely because it didn't fill in any blanks and unless the characters start to learn about their background, there's no narrative purpose to it.

[The Cool Thatguy]

My main issue with Alan being gay, is the fact Alan's always been the elder statesman of the JSA. The hard ass who didn't bend. Him being in the closet his entire life kinda goes against that, IMO

[Bored at 3:00AM]

My main issue with Alan being gay, is the fact Alan's always been the elder statesman of the JSA. The hard ass who didn't bend. Him being in the closet his entire life kinda goes against that, IMO

Alan's uncompromising nature is what makes him an interesting choice to me. Contrasting Alan's more conservative, black & white morality with another element like this is a great hook for new stories.

[Mr.B]

What other changes could they apply to the JSA? Make one member black (first Mr.Terrific)? Make Black Canary hard of hearing? Apply more Earth 2 new 52 traits?

I think Jay seems to be blonde or was in this new reality.

Anyway I dont see this stuff as retcons but reality alterations or variants. Post Crisis changed history or removed chunks out.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Overall, I think this works great.

The way they framed it here, it mostly changes nothing about his characterization if he's b, or adds depth if he's indeed gay.

That said, wasn't there a point where he was a little homophobic towards Obsidian? That little tidbit doesn't work anymore.

[lemonpeace]

mwahaha the gays have stuck again! I shall run and tell the other allies!

in all honesty, I'm super into this! i got into DC post N52, so the idea of Alan being a closet gay man was always on the table as long as I've known the character. keep it a bean my interest in Alan was wholly contingent on if DC would ever pull the trigger on this. A lot of these old character bleed together for me, white "good ol' boys" doing super stuff having problems, that era wasn't exactly all that sacred to me. this puts his story in a new context that makes sense for the times that we live in today as a culture. if DC wants to keep insisting on these characters then they have to find ways to keep their story relevant and interesting. I think this is an example of the best way to continue to use these old elements, if you can't take a leap and do something new with them then leave them in the past. I wasn't checking for Alan Scott but now he's worth a look.

[Sutekh]

I absolutely love it. Pretty sure the kids will stay as well -he was a gay man in 40s, he had to stay in the closet-, which opens up many many storytelling opportunities. His relationship with his son is something I'm specifically looking forward to now.

I wonder if Todd's coming out is going to lead to his finally getting the clue that the world has moved on, and he doesn't need to be in the closet any longer, leading to some strain between them. (Todd's all like, 'Are you kidding me? I agonized for two years over how you'd react and you're like, 'oh hey, me too!'')

[Sutekh]

Ultimately I believe it's a pointless retcon because Obsidian is a gay man which could be explored and handled by the right writer and I find it unfair to change a longstanding to appeal to a minority that don't really read comics.

Ha, gay people don't really read comics. I did not know this!