Alan Scott in the Green Lantern 80th Anniversary *spoilers*

[J. D. Guy]

That said, wasn't there a point where he was a little homophobic towards Obsidian? That little tidbit doesn't work anymore.

It would actually work even better now.

[M L A]

Overall, I think this works great.

The way they framed it here, it mostly changes nothing about his characterization if he's b, or adds depth if he's indeed gay.

That said, wasn't there a point where he was a little homophobic towards Obsidian? That little tidbit doesn't work anymore.

Not particularly, the worst it got were a couple pages by a couple writers where Alan is awkward about it (but ok with it) and Todd makes fun of him for it.

Other than that, the JSA book didn't pay much mind to it (or to Obsidian in general lol), and Alan wasn't in Manhunter beyond a couple cameos and that's where most of the gay stuff happened. Which makes it pretty amusing to read some naysayers on twitter, etc talk about it like it was some storyline or sideplot at one point when like I said, were instead just a couple of presumably-supposed-to-be-amusing pages of an old dude who doesn't get it.

[K. Jones]

My main issue with Alan being gay, is the fact Alan's always been the elder statesman of the JSA. The hard ass who didn't bend. Him being in the closet his entire life kinda goes against that, IMO

I don't know, kind of reminds me of like, most of the super vocal conservatives you see on TV. They all kind of come across as closeted, and you're never typically surprised to learn they're soliciting secret airport bathroom rendezvous scenarios, you know?

I'm curious to see how they play it though. I think there's potential for some really strong, cool, and recognizable characterization here. Alan is closeted in the Golden Age, marries one of his villains, Rose/Thorn, has kids, and would conceivably have to come out later in life. Like, one of his braver personal moments would happen now - spurred on by later generations. To think that he has been friends, conceivably, with Wonder Woman since the 1940s creates an even more interesting dynamic. Or to explain things like why he married his first wife, who was one of his supervillains ... then married his second wife, who was one of his supervillains. Like what's that about?

Does he know his first wife is immortal now? Will he get to meet Earth-2 youthful himself, who is out? Could meeting his multiverse self be a thing that convinces him to come out? As he comes out as an older gentleman who do we ship him with? Like there's really poignant and also some really fun story potentialities.

[EmeraldGladiator]

I think people are reading a lot into the story. I didn't get that Alan was gay out of it at all. I'm not okay with it if it turns out to be true. Alan was never homosexual, and I hate this sort of retcon that alters a character's entire history retroactively. At least the New 52 Alan was an entirely new version of the character, but this is meant to be the original. Stick with the original intent. I see no good reason to change him this way.

Feels like a small ambiguous bone thrown for fans who want to see what they want to see but up and until Earth 2 Alan was never homosexual and the announcement, change meant to be a game changers didn't move the needle not to be cynical but in the end everything is about money in the end. The JSA that DC is bringing back is a return of the most idealized version of the characters to maximize impact. I could be wrong but I am of the opinion that the Legion relaunch would have been more successful if they had just brought back the longest running version of the Legion (Legion classic) that was hinted in the beginning of Doomsday Clock as opposed to yet another reboot. The Alan I want back is a combo of the Roy Thomas' Alan Scott, JSA powerhouse father of Jade and Todd and the Geoff John's foundational member of the JSA as a symbol/mentor of a new generation of heroes. Earth 2 the title GL should be forgotten as well as the tea kettle armor look.

[Ascended]

That said, wasn't there a point where he was a little homophobic towards Obsidian? That little tidbit doesn't work anymore.

Nah, it works better now.

It used to be a matter of Allan being old school and not quite as tolerant as he could be, despite his own best efforts. Now it's Allan being old school on top of knowing, deep deep down, that his son is braver than he is and living in a world that (mostly) accepts him.

Allan has to confront the fact that Todd gets to live his life honestly, out in the open, while Allan was forced by society into hiding what he is, even from himself. Now it's not just a matter of "I'm from a less enlightened era and not sure how to handle my gay son" it's a matter of "I'm from a less enlightened era and not sure how to handle my gay son, while also having to confront my own repressed feelings and being a little jealous of my kid, who gets to be open about being gay while I had to bury it."

It (potentially) adds to the tension of their dynamic, it doesn't have to remove it.

[Sutekh]

Nah, it works better now.

It used to be a matter of Allan being old school and not quite as tolerant as he could be, despite his own best efforts. Now it's Allan being old school on top of knowing, deep deep down, that his son is braver than he is and living in a world that (mostly) accepts him.

Allan has to confront the fact that Todd gets to live his life honestly, out in the open, while Allan was forced by society into hiding what he is, even from himself. Now it's not just a matter of "I'm from a less enlightened era and not sure how to handle my gay son" it's a matter of "I'm from a less enlightened era and not sure how to handle my gay son, while also having to confront my own repressed feelings and being a little jealous of my kid, who gets to be open about being gay while I had to bury it."

It (potentially) adds to the tension of their dynamic, it doesn't have to remove it.

That could be a fun and nuanced take on it. I'm not sure I trust the writing to handle that...

[Robanker]

I don’t think Lois or Nightwing.

But Powergirl is a possibility for bi with her shown relationships with Huntress and Atlee.

I don't see it with PG. I don't equate female friendships with shipping just as I don't with male ones, or frankly ones of opposite sexes. Both those relationships are essentially her sister/best friend and a kid sidekick. PG's always had a very no-nonsense view of her love life in that she's in until it's a bother and then she hard ejects, being very content to be single. I can't imagine she likes drama, but if she was going to hook up with either Huntress or Atlee, she would have by now.

Unlike Alan, her love life comes up fairly often and gets a good amount of development. There's not a lot of places to go that aren't, well, Bobby Drake for PG given her publishing history and how DC has used her for the last twenty years. With Alan, his story dovetailed into it pretty well from multiple threads. His stoic nature, the lack of reference to his love life in four decades, the tension with his gay son. It all works very well for a closeted gay man struggling with himself. PG really would just come across like someone thought "well she's hot, believes women deserve to be treated well and has female friends, so why not?"

[Ascended]

And if I recall correctly, Atlee is a teenager. There's a noticeable age difference between her and Karen.

[Will Evans]

For Powergirl I believe it’s because, outside of the new 52 version being in a sexual relationship with Mr Terrific, Karen never had any personal relationship involved with a man. Her closest intimate relationships were with women.

[achilles]

For Powergirl I believe it’s because, outside of the new 52 version being in a sexual relationship with Mr Terrific, Karen never had any personal relationship involved with a man. Her closest intimate relationships were with women.

Um, no. She's had a number of relationships that seemed to involve sex with men ranging from Hal Jordan to Hawkman, Aquaman, (her crush on him when she was "Atlantean" like him, unreciprocated by him), to a nameless guy to Mr. Terrific, (that horrible nu52 thing). She's NEVER had "intimate relations" with a female character----any interest in HER from female characters, (expressed by only two female characters I'm aware, one of the Crimson Foxes, which PG herself noted had happened, where Crimson Fox expressed interest in PG in that manner, but the way PG told it suggested very heavily that PG herself was NOT interested....and the other being Harley, which is hardly surprising. Again, NO interest on the part of PG. And there has been one Elseworlds where she's indicated serious interest in male strippers...

Don't confuse shipping with what DC has actually said on the matter. That said, given DC's history and interest in turning formerly straight characters gay or bi; I wouldn't be too surprised if they went that way, but it hasn't happened yet.

[achilles]

And if I recall correctly, Atlee is a teenager. There's a noticeable age difference between her and Karen.

Yes, I found that a bit creepy. It's also been ignored ever since the Palmiotti run on her solo.

[Ascended]

That could be a fun and nuanced take on it. I'm not sure I trust the writing to handle that...

Well, never underestimate DC's ability to screw up a good thing. But worth the effort I think. I'd rather have a story that isn't well written that tries to do something interesting and thought provoking than a story that isn't well written and is also just another paint-by-numbers superhero narrative. After all, a bad writer is gonna write bad stories regardless of what the story is about.

[Sutekh]

Well, never underestimate DC's ability to screw up a good thing. But worth the effort I think. I'd rather have a story that isn't well written that tries to do something interesting and thought provoking than a story that isn't well written and is also just another paint-by-numbers superhero narrative. After all, a bad writer is gonna write bad stories regardless of what the story is about.

Good point. Gotta shoot for the stars, regardless, not play it safe. It's the only way to get even *some* great stories, rather than a neverending stream of boring mush, because you weren't willing to risk the occasional bomb.

[Dr. Ellingham]

Alan Scott fan since the mid-1980s, yo. And since my take hasn't really been represented in this discussion, I figured this is the place for it. Haphazard as it is:

1. In the interest of intended progress, we conscript the past to conform to our present. Alan Scott being made gay as a modern character for stories set in 2020 is fair; the world has changed, and DC needs to evolve to modern social dynamics, and inclusiveness is good.

2. My Alan Scott is of the 1960s-1990s, and this is just another goodbye to him. But it's not a big loss; I don't read comics these days, and more importantly it's not like Alan has his own stories. He, and the other classic JSAers, lost their agency with COIE and have been primarily used as "mentors" to prop up legacy characters in the JSA over the past 20 or so years, anyway. The real loss here is less tangible, and more problematic:

3. Alan being a gay superhero in stories set in 1940. In a fantasy, action-adventure story, these sorts of social stories are never handled with any degree of believability.

Alan is apparently becoming to the JSA what Sal Romano was to Mad Men - a closeted gay character trying to navigate the 1960s corporate world, who eventually marries a woman, has affairs, gets outed, loses his job, etc. The story goes that way because that's what would realistically happen in 1962.

Mad Men was a brilliant, thoughtful show. It practiced treating the social norms of the 1960s accurately. Mostly. Unlike, say, Downton Abbey- where the protagonists' morality is thoroughly 2010s, despite the show being set in the 1910s. It's done this way to prevent making our lead characters "ugly" by giving them the beliefs and values of the era. Instead, they're "us", and we have time-traveled to the past.

Modern audiences aren't as accepting of complexity; people have become increasingly binary in their thinking. They want unabashedly "pretty" characters. So when we visit the past, our heroes are imbued with modern values, and characters with period-accurate values are either not present, or or cast as villains. So when Alan is outed to his teammates, will they keep him on the team? The truth is - in 1945, the answer would be no. But in the story, it will be yes. So then - why tell that story? To throw darts at the past, to feel morally superior.

That's simplistic, and more than a little dishonest. Alan Scott deserves better than being a dart thrown at the world he came from. Especially since we increasingly lack the ability to understand our own complex world, let along a very different complex world from 80 years ago.

[Stingo]

Alan Scott fan since the mid-1980s, yo. And since my take hasn't really been represented in this discussion, I figured this is the place for it. Haphazard as it is:

1. In the interest of intended progress, we conscript the past to conform to our present. Alan Scott being made gay as a modern character for stories set in 2020 is fair; the world has changed, and DC needs to evolve to modern social dynamics, and inclusiveness is good.

2. My Alan Scott is of the 1960s-1990s, and this is just another goodbye to him. But it's not a big loss; I don't read comics these days, and more importantly it's not like Alan has his own stories. He, and the other classic JSAers, lost their agency with COIE and have been primarily used as "mentors" to prop up legacy characters in the JSA over the past 20 or so years, anyway. The real loss here is less tangible, and more problematic:

3. Alan being a gay superhero in stories set in 1940. In a fantasy, action-adventure story, these sorts of social stories are never handled with any degree of believability.

Alan is apparently becoming to the JSA what Sal Romano was to Mad Men - a closeted gay character trying to navigate the 1960s corporate world, who eventually marries a woman, has affairs, gets outed, loses his job, etc. The story goes that way because that's what would realistically happen in 1962.

Mad Men was a brilliant, thoughtful show. It practiced treating the social norms of the 1960s accurately. Mostly. Unlike, say, Downton Abbey- where the protagonists' morality is thoroughly 2010s, despite the show being set in the 1910s. It's done this way to prevent making our lead characters "ugly" by giving them the beliefs and values of the era. Instead, they're "us", and we have time-traveled to the past.

Modern audiences aren't as accepting of complexity; people have become increasingly binary in their thinking. They want unabashedly "pretty" characters. So when we visit the past, our heroes are imbued with modern values, and characters with period-accurate values are either not present, or or cast as villains. So when Alan is outed to his teammates, will they keep him on the team? The truth is - in 1945, the answer would be no. But in the story, it will be yes. So then - why tell that story? To throw darts at the past, to feel morally superior.

That's simplistic, and more than a little dishonest. Alan Scott deserves better than being a dart thrown at the world he came from. Especially since we increasingly lack the ability to understand our own complex world, let along a very different complex world from 80 years ago.

Boom! Drop the mic and walk away with this on point post.

This is probably one of the best posts on ANY topic that I've read in a while and perfectly sums it all up for this longtime DC reader.