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  1. #1
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Question WHITE HOT ROOM or QUANTUM FIELD?

    Well... in an "argument" recently with friends in regards to the Phoenix Force, a statement was made about the Quantum "Field" (Quantum Realm is different), that it precedes the White Hot Room and the M'Kraan Crystal. I debated that the White Hot Room is the very center of creation, and it is where the Phoenix resides, is born, and does its work. Then I got quite the ear full. An ear full of quantum mechanics, and quantum metaphysics jargon (none I'll speak of as I barely understood any of it).

    Unfortunately for me, my friends go deep into learning about science, mathematics, technology and mysticism and ****, which leaves me in the cold. Sooooo... That's why I'm asking someone with comic book knowledge for help. I'm gonna attempt writing down the gist of what was discussed...

    While there are many different types of "quantum fields", containing fundamental "building blocks" of existence as a whole, "THE Quantum Field" summarizes all fields of which, the basics and principles of all forms of existence, thought, space and spirit, are constructed. Without the Quantum Field, they said nothing that exists would exist. There would be no universe, parallel universes, multiverses or the omniverse. The (primary) Quantum Field is... um... some kind of transcendent state beyond it all... And then someone threw in... some **** called "Sub-Quantum Kinetic Fields or Energy" or something like that. I won't EVEN attempt trying to remember that one, that's way too far out for me.

    I'll try to ask for a simplified definition and post it. I do remember them comparing the Quantum Field and the White Hot Room with computers, and that helped a lot in understanding how insane these concepts are lol I'll ask about that comparison again, and paste it here...

    All I want to know is would that be true? "Scientifically" and "spiritually" speaking, or whatever. Does the Quantum Field precede the White Hot Room? Based on what was told to me, it sounds right, I just don't know for sure...

  2. #2
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Hmm... I have no idea. This is definitely over my head. I’m going to say that the Quantum Field (or Realm) is a massive subatomic space between atoms that connects realities, time, etc. The connective tissue or space between realities, the nexus of the multiverse as well as the dead space in between. Something like that. Ergo the White Hot Room would have to be within the Quantum Realm someplace. Where these ultra powerful beings who have ascended (Phoenixes of the crown) would gather to protect the multiverse. There was also a similar concept in Excalibur if I recall with Saturne and Otherworld, so maybe there are other points where it can be tapped into, this nexus point between universes. Kind of like Stephen King’s Dark Tower.

    But I’m not really sure. The above good to me... I guess.

  3. #3

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    You can't reconcile bleeding edge science with completely fictional comic book canon. Morrison's White Hot Room to me is a reference to the chakra system in various Hindu and Buddhist cosmologies(White Phoenix of the Crown[Chakra]). This a metaphysical concept that does align nicely with psionic powers and the astral plane as we understand them from the comics, and also aligns nicely with the barely mentioned but Claremont canonical reference to the Kabbalah(Afro-asiatic/Semetic Tree of Life), which allowed Phoenix to rescreate the entire universe in the original Phoenix saga.

    That said, given what we know about comic book multiverses, and other dimensions, I think it is fair to say that the White Hot Room exists independently of the usual material realm, and thus, quantum mechanics, being an artifact of material reality, is not above it. I mean, even particle physicists think there is more beyond the quantum scale(such as superstring theory).

    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  4. #4
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    Hmm... I have no idea. This is definitely over my head. I’m going to say that the Quantum Field (or Realm) is a massive subatomic space between atoms that connects realities, time, etc. The connective tissue or space between realities, the nexus of the multiverse as well as the dead space in between. Something like that. Ergo the White Hot Room would have to be within the Quantum Realm someplace. Where these ultra powerful beings who have ascended (Phoenixes of the crown) would gather to protect the multiverse. There was also a similar concept in Excalibur if I recall with Saturne and Otherworld, so maybe there are other points where it can be tapped into, this nexus point between universes. Kind of like Stephen King’s Dark Tower.

    But I’m not really sure. The above good to me... I guess.
    There are some points you said that are similar to what my friends said. The way it was explained to me, is like quantum fields are kinda the root of what makes existence and manifestations. I'm familiar with the Otherworld, and maybe I should mention that to them. I'll ask...

  5. #5
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    You can't reconcile bleeding edge science with completely fictional comic book canon. Morrison's White Hot Room to me is a reference to the chakra system in various Hindu and Buddhist cosmologies(White Phoenix of the Crown[Chakra]). This a metaphysical concept that does align nicely with psionic powers and the astral plane as we understand them from the comics, and also aligns nicely with the barely mentioned but Claremont canonical reference to the Kabbalah(Afro-asiatic/Semetic Tree of Life), which allowed Phoenix to rescreate the entire universe in the original Phoenix saga.

    That said, given what we know about comic book multiverses, and other dimensions, I think it is fair to say that the White Hot Room exists independently of the usual material realm, and thus, quantum mechanics, being an artifact of material reality, is not above it. I mean, even particle physicists think there is more beyond the quantum scale(such as superstring theory).

    Thanks for those answers! I love the use of the particle chart in your explanation, as... my friends have books, audio ****, and articles that they'll show me as well, to explain their perspective.

    What you provided... I feel answers some questions that I have. However, with some prior research, I found a number of discussions and even scientists stating that quantum physics and quantum mechanics does in fact deal with the "astral plane" and "psionic powers", and other "spiritual" jargon. As a matter of fact, I've found a number of sources discussing that quantum mechanics may unlock the truth and secrets behind concepts such as reincarnation, and there are theories out there concerning it. Now don't get me wrong... I greatly appreciate your info on quantum physics, from a scientific perspective, but I do want answers in regards to its metaphysical aspect as well.

    And yes, even in bringing up "superstring theory" something I'm kinda familiar with (on the count of my colleagues), that's going into the REAL spooky ****, as I mentioned before "Sub-Quantum Kinetic Field Energy" or something like that. All I can say on that, its supposed to far transcend the primary Quantum Field. In a Wikipedia article, I DID find some info that quantum mechanics does go deeper than just the "quantum realm" and has a fundamental in something called "Theory of Everything", or all of existence (which may be the answer there).

    As told to me, the (primary or primordial, whatever) Quantum Field contains the very building blocks of the fundamental building blocks of even what makes "concept" a thing. From metaphysical perspective, as told, the Quantum Field provides the principles and laws OF things like "enlightenment", chakra energy, meditation, reincarnation, psionics and all that stuff.

    My question is... how does that compare to the White Hot Room? And I ask that, because of ANOTHER argument I'm trying to win in regards to the Phoenix and the WHR.

    I'll ask for more explanation from my colleague, and then I'll post in here for you guys to see and judge

  6. #6

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    You can seek to connect Quantum Field Theory with any or all spiritual/metaphysical systems, or any comic book ideas, and I'm sure that's fine since everything is ultimately connected and simply various expressions of Singularity, but I mean, the math is going to fall apart somewhere along that line of thinking. Which is why I don't think one should try to reconcile purely narrative, fictional stories with hard science/math. I mean, look at X-Men in general. You have an explanation for all these various powers and abilities come down to a single common gene implanted in protohumanity by space gods. Never mind the fact that these genes can turn into ice or fire or whatever kind of energy and back into flesh again, or that anything from a raygun to various explosives to satellites and nanobots can neutralize this gene upon contact(but then fade away again). Just enjoy the stories and characters. If they inspire you to study science and math anyways, that's great, but they are two distinct things.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Oh Not Quantum Leap
    GrindrStone(D)

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    Astonishing Member ARkadelphia's Avatar
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    I’d this multiple choice if so, I choose: D) All Of The Above
    “The Avengers have been the one point of stability in my entire life. And if The Avengers call… then The Scarlet Witch will always answer.”

  9. #9
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    You can seek to connect Quantum Field Theory with any or all spiritual/metaphysical systems, or any comic book ideas, and I'm sure that's fine since everything is ultimately connected and simply various expressions of Singularity, but I mean, the math is going to fall apart somewhere along that line of thinking. Which is why I don't think one should try to reconcile purely narrative, fictional stories with hard science/math. I mean, look at X-Men in general. You have an explanation for all these various powers and abilities come down to a single common gene implanted in protohumanity by space gods. Never mind the fact that these genes can turn into ice or fire or whatever kind of energy and back into flesh again, or that anything from a raygun to various explosives to satellites and nanobots can neutralize this gene upon contact(but then fade away again). Just enjoy the stories and characters. If they inspire you to study science and math anyways, that's great, but they are two distinct things.
    I don't think "the math" would fall apart, as quantum mechanics is very theoretical, and the deeper you go, the weirder and "less sense" it all seems to make. I also support that the application of some, in-depth scientific knowledge actually enhances fictional work. It can even provide more solidity to whatever the subject matter is about.

    Since you brought up "protohumanity" and "space gods", the application of certain principles from quantum mechanics and quantum metaphysics could apply, granting more credence and believability to the story being told. And how satellites and certain rays can disrupt "genetic equilibrium" and stuff like that, CAN be explained using quantum science.

    My thing is... if someone is creating a fanwork involving many fans of a particular IP, then I just wanna make sure that whatever is brought to the table, properly syncs with canon on some level...

  10. #10
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARkadelphia View Post
    I’d this multiple choice if so, I choose: D) All Of The Above
    LOL multiple choice? what would be all of the above?

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member ARkadelphia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    LOL multiple choice? what would be all of the above?
    It was my way of saying I didn’t understand anything that was written so I’ll just take a wild Guess at the right answer to the question posed.
    “The Avengers have been the one point of stability in my entire life. And if The Avengers call… then The Scarlet Witch will always answer.”

  12. #12
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Oh Not Quantum Leap
    LOL good one XD

    You can attempt an answer with this question, but... I've given up. No one can... really answer this question, and so... I'm just gonna take my friends' word on it. They win, I lose

  13. #13
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARkadelphia View Post
    It was my way of saying I didn’t understand anything that was written so I’ll just take a wild Guess at the right answer to the question posed.
    Yeah don't worry about it.

    In simple terms, the question was... which precedes or transcends the other... The Quantum Field, or the White Hot Room?

    I tried explaining what was shared with me, in hopes of someone else shedding light on the subject. I've shared this question with a many, many discussion forums and... it's safe to say, that NO ONE really can answer that. So... I'm gonna just call it quits, and take my friends' answer, in which they said The Quantum Field transcends everything that the White Hot Room is, and that the White Hot Room in essence is subject to the rules of the Quantum Field.

    There was one answer above, but only dealt with very limited information on quantum physics, and the answer didn't come from wholistic(?) background and perspective on the vast scope of quantum mechanics, physics, and "quantum metaphysics". Unfortunately, this leaves me to take whatever my friends say, without any good second opinions

  14. #14
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    Marvel writers sure did a number on the M'Kraan Crystal by trashing its original origin didn't they?
    Last edited by Micabe; 06-28-2020 at 08:03 PM.

  15. #15
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micabe View Post
    Marvel writers sure did a number on the M'Kraan Crystal by trashing its original origin didn't they?
    Well... I don't know what the origin story is; I mean, I only know from the X-Men TAS and what I read from the wiki, but... beyond that, I wouldn't be surprised if the M'Kraan Crystal was retconned to ****.

    At this point, I'm done. No one can rly answer my question, in any forum I've asked. This leaves me to simply accept what my friends told me. I do trust them as far as their knowledge of both quantum mechanics and metaphysics. They've studied these things for years, so... I know I'm asking too much, but... I do wish someone as knowledgeable as they are, could offer me a second opinion... that is IF one even exists.

    But yep... prolly will close this thread soon.

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