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  1. #16
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevlon View Post
    The penance stare doesn't work on aliens? All aliens? Or just symbiotes?
    It's not because Venom is an alien, it's because the stare can't get to his eyes. Any character with weird eyes like that can get around the stare, for instance Zodiac, who had 12 pairs of eyes was immune but GR couldn't focus the stare on any one set.

    With that said, hellfire tears Venom up worse than it does most people, so it balances out.

  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueElf94 View Post
    This kind of stuff used to drive me absolutely nuts. How does Spider-man beat Firelord one issue but struggle with Vulture next? How does Gladiator get beaten by Gambit?!?! etc. etc.

    I think as fans the best and healthiest thing we can do is accept that these power levels are, more often than not, arbitrary. The needs of the story will outweigh whatever preconceived info there is on a character. All it takes is approval from the editor. Is this always right? No, we fans generally expect some continuity with how strong or capable characters are depicted. But as long as it doesn't break all credibility, writers shouldn't be a slave to this stuff if they've got good stories to tell. Concerning GR, he's gotten buffed so much over the years that it's within plausibility for him to stand toe to toe with Hulk, even if the published power levels don't necessarily reflect that.
    This, basically. No matter what a character's power levels are, when it comes to writing stories most writers have the freedom to establish whatever feat they want. I used to have an uncle that would always tell us, "I can smell a lie from a thousand miles. So if you're going to lie to me, you better make it a good one, so fanciful and out of this world that I get the laughing fits -- because that's the only thing that's going to save you from an ass whuppin'." And boy did my cousins and I come up with some epic fibs whenever we got caught doing something wrong. But it never fooled my uncle; he never laughed once.

    So try not to focus too much on what a character's power levels are. Batman beats up Superman all of the time, even though on paper Superman should kill Batman 100% of the time in 1 second or less. Heck, Superman doesn't even have to get within earshot of Batman to kill him. But that's not how they write it.
    Last edited by JudicatorPrime; 06-25-2020 at 12:22 PM.

  3. #18
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueElf94 View Post
    This kind of stuff used to drive me absolutely nuts. How does Spider-man beat Firelord one issue but struggle with Vulture next? How does Gladiator get beaten by Gambit?!?! etc. etc.
    Oh, the tennis player ranking is changing all the time…

  4. #19
    Incredible Member Cruelrain's Avatar
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    I want to see a fight between him and Magik

  5. #20
    Death of Time Cronus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueElf94 View Post
    This kind of stuff used to drive me absolutely nuts. How does Spider-man beat Firelord one issue but struggle with Vulture next? How does Gladiator get beaten by Gambit?!?! etc. etc.
    I call it PIS (plot induced stupidity). You mentioned Gladiator, who has super speed as an explicit part of his power set, who doesn't use it nearly as much as he could to his advantage. I mean like, even within in the same issue. Writer's are there to tell stories, not to write a character logically within the constraints of their powers.

    I think as fans the best and healthiest thing we can do is accept that these power levels are, more often than not, arbitrary. The needs of the story will outweigh whatever preconceived info there is on a character. All it takes is approval from the editor. Is this always right? No, we fans generally expect some continuity with how strong or capable characters are depicted. But as long as it doesn't break all credibility, writers shouldn't be a slave to this stuff if they've got good stories to tell. Concerning GR, he's gotten buffed so much over the years that it's within plausibility for him to stand toe to toe with Hulk, even if the published power levels don't necessarily reflect that.
    As another poster put it, so many narrative inconsistencies result from writer's not consistently applying a character's power set to a situation. Again, they just write stories. As much suspension of disbelief goes into a character NOT using their powers on any number of occasions within a given comic as much as writing a character applying their powers in a way that, say..., flies in the face of established science.

    Writers tell stories. Readers (like myself) go to Rumbles threads and try and make logical sense of it all.
    "I know you're in there Banner. I'll get you out!"
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    "Before I met you, I'd go days without massacring a bunch of things. Honest"
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    "You said clear."
    "I said it looks clear."
    "Well what's it look like now?"
    "Looks clear."

  6. #21
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    In a nutshell, characters are as powerful as the story requires.

  7. #22
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cronus View Post
    Writers tell stories. Readers (like myself) go to Rumbles threads and try and make logical sense of it all.
    The problem with versus boards is that people often reference the very feats that were PIS to begin with in support of their argument, disregarding basic logic and even the established rules of in-universe science. It just seems a big waste of time trying to explain why Spider-Man really doesn't survive a close quarters confrontation with Firelord ever; or why Havok shouldn't be the only hero capable of siphoning off the Hulk's gamma energy, reverting him back into "helpless" Bruce Banner. In many respects, comics are the historical registry of PIS.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member Ptrvc's Avatar
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    Sometimes the Ghost Rider is treated like the Wrath of God, nothing and nobody can stand against him.

    Most of the time...not so much.

  9. #24
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    Ghost Rider has a number of powers, and they're powers that don't only attack the body. In RPG terms, he has a lot of attacks that strike Special Defense instead of Defense, and Marvel as a whole doesn't have NEARLY as many characters with good S.Def stats. That, combine with the fact that he can only be put down by holy weapons and deus ex machinas makes him quite formidable.

  10. #25
    Death of Time Cronus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    The problem with versus boards is that people often reference the very feats that were PIS to begin with in support of their argument
    I will say I have experienced that on certain websites (won't state where, avoiding board wars and such ). For me personally? Such has not been the case on Rumbles here on CBR. The rule of thumb is "high end feats consistent with the character's presentation". This excludes outlier feats.

    disregarding basic logic and even the established rules of in-universe science.
    Mmm, you might have me there. Rumbles doesn't have a problem with that logic generally. The problem in most instances is real world science and comic book feats rarely share the same "dimensional space", so to speak. Which is to say, they normally contradict one another. At least, that's been my experience.

    It just seems a big waste of time trying to explain why Spider-Man really doesn't survive a close quarters confrontation with Firelord ever;
    Funny you mention that. On Rumbles, we use the term SMvFL (Spider-Man vs Firelord) as the perfect example of a character that performed waaaayyyy outside the realm of their normal high end feats (otherwise previously noted as an "outlier")

    or why Havok shouldn't be the only hero capable of siphoning off the Hulk's gamma energy,
    I haven't experienced that on Rumbles. I have on another website.

    reverting him back into "helpless" Bruce Banner. In many respects, comics are the historical registry of PIS.
    Rumbles does fairly well respecting this precedent set by Stan Lee himself:

    stanthemansetsemstraight.jpg

    There's real world science and then there is "comic book" science. It's the same science that allows a character to strike another with "planet busting" force, but not decimate the character in the process, or travel beyond the speed of light (as noted above), etc.

    Real world science is cool to bring into a conversation on Rumble style threads as long as it doesn't contradict the already established science indicated in the comics themselves.
    "I know you're in there Banner. I'll get you out!"
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    "Before I met you, I'd go days without massacring a bunch of things. Honest"
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    "You said clear."
    "I said it looks clear."
    "Well what's it look like now?"
    "Looks clear."

  11. #26
    Amazing Member
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    Well, he did got his powers from making a deal with a demon. He has super strength and is immortal when he's the ghost rider. Not to mention, he has hire manipulation and the most powerful of all, the penance stare.

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