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  1. #76
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopQuezy View Post
    I'm not trying to be mean but these are rather weak ideological oppositions, and I find it a stretch to even call them ideological.

    I think Rucka has found the sweet spot for Cheetah with their new personal history, and the idea that Cheetah is the one person Diana can never truly save.
    The opening of your post made me laugh out loud! Carry on! Fur versus naked! Stars versus spots! Meat versus vegetables!

    The enmity with Cheetah is a tragic irony. The freedom loving Amazon, who leaps into subatomic galaxies and topples cosmic empires, ..cannot liberate her lost friend, from the evil monster, that is herself. I can accept the poetry in that.

    Just the same, I think the WW/Cheets thing has been left baking, too long. I dont salivate, imagining these two coming together, anymore. I would welcome Clea, Cyber or JLD Circe taking her place, in the oven and feasting on some classic stories, ..born of something fresher and newer.

    Bra versus braless! LOL
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 06-29-2020 at 01:25 PM.
    Look alive, Kangaliers!

  2. #77
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant God View Post
    I thought it was Man vs Animal or Restraint vs Wildness?
    What PopQuezy said. Perhaps most importantly, Cheetah has no goals or ideals on how she wants society to look or function. She shares that problem with the Circe as envisioned in the Wonder Woman mythos.

    The conflict with Ares in the movie was on the other hand firmly based on ideological principles, it was only that Diana didn't understand that until rather late (which is fine, it was a coming of age story). Diana's conflicts with Doctor Psycho and Veronica Cale are also strongly based in ideology, especially so in the original incarnation of Veronica Cale.

    Now, should the conflict between hero and archenemy be ideologically based? Not necessarily. But Wonder Woman is an inherently ideological character, and I think it's a shame that her archenemy doesn't reflect that.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  3. #78
    Fantastic Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    They do have an ideological conflict now - worship of the gods vs defiance of the gods. It has little to do with society but hubris is an important theme of Greek tragedies which is quite fitting for a character closely tied with Greek mythology.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    They do have an ideological conflict now - worship of the gods vs defiance of the gods. It has little to do with society but hubris is an important theme of Greek tragedies which is quite fitting for a character closely tied with Greek mythology.
    But Rebirth Diana, at least, doesn't believe in blindly worshiping the gods. As a matter of fact, she warns Barbara Ann of the dangers of blind loyalty to the gods. She tells Barbara Ann that while she loves the gods she does not trust them.

    I'm also not certain who you are claiming possesses hubris. You discuss hubris being an important theme in Greek mythology which makes me think you mean Diana. However, it is Barbara Ann's hubris and refusal to listen to reason that gets her cursed as the Cheetah...twice.

  5. #80
    Fantastic Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopQuezy View Post
    But Rebirth Diana, at least, doesn't believe in blindly worshiping the gods. As a matter of fact, she warns Barbara Ann of the dangers of blind loyalty to the gods. She tells Barbara Ann that while she loves the gods she does not trust them.

    I'm also not certain who you are claiming possesses hubris. You discuss hubris being an important theme in Greek mythology which makes me think you mean Diana. However, it is Barbara Ann's hubris and refusal to listen to reason that gets her cursed as the Cheetah...twice.
    She doesn't worship them blindly but she still worships them. They are her Patrons and Zeus is her father (even if we all hate it).

    I mean Barbara ofc. She's tied to Greek mythology via her ties to Diana.

  6. #81
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    There was an interview with Greg Rucka where he said he approached Barbara Ann as if she were Icarus, and she was "punished" for reaching too close to the sun. She's a very classical character in her hubris. She seeks power because she views it as a tool/harmless adventure so she can be like Diana, she doesn't respect the danger and is cursed for it.

    There is also the fact that Diana is named for the goddess of the hunt and Cheetah is also a huntress/wild animal that she engages with, and every classical Greek hero has an equally iconic monster or two that they are tied with. Cheetah is a bit like the Medusa to Diana's Perseus. In a happy coincidence, Marston even described Priscilla Rich as a "modern day Medusa," and Barbara Ann brings it to the next level by being a mortal cursed into a monster by a petty God.

  7. #82
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    There was an interview with Greg Rucka where he said he approached Barbara Ann as if she were Icarus, and she was "punished" for reaching too close to the sun. She's a very classical character in her hubris. She seeks power because she views it as a tool/harmless adventure so she can be like Diana, she doesn't respect the danger and is cursed for it.

    There is also the fact that Diana is named for the goddess of the hunt and Cheetah is also a huntress/wild animal that she engages with, and every classical Greek hero has an equally iconic monster or two that they are tied with. Cheetah is a bit like the Medusa to Diana's Perseus. In a happy coincidence, Marston even described Priscilla Rich as a "modern day Medusa," and Barbara Ann brings it to the next level by being a mortal cursed into a monster by a petty God.
    I'd love to see a story where Cheetah bands together with other female monsters scorned by the gods (Scylla, Arachne, and of course Medusa).

  8. #83
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I think this article lays out some pretty interesting reasoning for why the current incarnation of Cheetah is an appropriate nemesis:

    https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/wonder...-queer-villain

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    I'd love to see a story where Cheetah bands together with other female monsters scorned by the gods (Scylla, Arachne, and of course Medusa).
    That would be pretty awesome. Scylla would naturally involve Circe, an Arachne seems like a cool concept I'm surprised hasn't been picked up yet.

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