Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 88
  1. #1
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    4,428

    Default DC's real problem

    With all the stories of harassment coming out, I hope people realise it's only the tip of the iceberg, and in two different ways. The first is that only a small amount of the harassment cases gets public. But the other is that the actual sexual harassment needs a culture where women are treated as invisible and expendable. Like in this thread by Mairghread Scott.

    You know the day I knew I’d never be able to make it big in comics? The day I bumped into another writer in an airport and accidentally learned he was heading to DC’s Burbank offices for a Bat-family summit.

    I was writing Batgirl at the time. I wasn’t invited.

    I had just started the gig and I desperately wanted to believe it was timing. I begged my editors to let me come in, for free, and at least sit in on summits that dealt with my characters. I was literally working up the street at the time.

    It didn’t matter.

    There was at least one more summit I know about that I wasn’t invited to. I suspect more than one given how whole storylines of mine would be thrown out to accommodate a new event my characters were in without my knowledge, inclusion, or opinion.

    It got so bad I literally couldn’t afford to work there any more because my pay was so low.

    I quit.

    I still blame myself for that. I thought I could be good enough to break through it, even if I knew it wasn’t about merit.

    I’m not doing this to blow up anybody. I just want young women out there to remember that when someone tells you “I support women,” you look around and see if there are any fucking women near him that he’s actually supporting.

    Because if there aren’t, he just supports himself.
    I'm sure this problem isn't limited to only DC.

    And one key here is the extra labour that Scott was expected to put in, for having to write new storylines instead of the aborted ones. DC really should look into their payment practices there, because even if pay is good for a single book, if you are putting in the equivalent of one and a half book for each one, then the figures doesn't look so good anymore.

    So yes, DC is sabotaging itself with its business practices.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  2. #2
    Three Legged Member married guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Your mum's place
    Posts
    1,661

    Default

    That's a pretty damn disgusting workplace culture.
    How is shit like that even possible nowadays???
    Where's the HR or legal people to speak to in the office?
    "My name is Wally West. I'm the fastest man alive!"
    I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter.

  3. #3
    Mighty Member jb681131's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1,166

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    So yes, DC is sabotaging itself with its business practices.
    Indee, but those "practices" as you say, are there since the begining. So after 80+ years of such practives, DC is still holding strong.
    I don't think the real problem in DC is how they treat women. Because they's don't awfull things to men-writters and even to acknowledge writter.
    It's like with the event "Flashpoint" - only a select few were aware a reboot was coming. And when it came out, all the writters, even the top-billed ones had to adapt !
    AT&T doesn't care how stuff are handled and if it could be handled better. If they see profit, it's enought, they have other fishes to fry.

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member Güicho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,905

    Default

    "Practice" ?

    So who all is (was) at this "Bat-family summit" ? (this would have coincided with the Tom King run on the main title, and approaching Detective Comics #1000 (was that the summit?))
    Was her Editor there? The (at the time) Robin writer? Batwoman? Batwing? Catwoman? Nightwing? Redhood? Was every Bat book writer and editor represented? Except her?
    Was it just her excluded? Was her contract for just a specific short run on Batgirl? And not the direction of the entire Bat franchise?
    This anecdote is meaningless without those details. ..facts.
    Yet the one offered is they lived near by (and what does proximity have to do with it?) Imagine the direction of Batman decided today because of who was closest, that Editor would be laughed out of the industry.

    As far as event books; Individual book creator's story-lines get left out, thrown out, changed, ignored, all the time, to follow the big "event" stories, which drive and take propriety all the time. Not everyone is invited to craft them either.
    We've seen countless writers (not gender specific) complain about the same, not even let in on the direction of the big event, or how it would effect their story and character. It happens all the time! Even with the most seasoned writers who have stuck it out, have their narrative curtailed for that years big event.
    It's cause acquiescent fans buy and follow events. At the expense of the regular character ongoings .
    So they cater to that.

    And she quit after 12 issues on Batgirl, cause she wasn't deciding the direction of the main Bat book?
    How many writers go (have gone with less pay and recognition) for years gone for a decade, without deciding the direction on Batman. hoping to one day get a shot.
    That's a dream!
    I have to wonder, was this a - "dream job" you know something people struggle and stick out with for long, or - a "dream" they don't recognize my instant entitlement now, so I quit!?

    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    DC's real problem
    What's the "real" problem?
    Last edited by Güicho; 06-25-2020 at 06:49 AM.

  5. #5
    ...of the Black Priests Midnight_v's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,283

    Default

    I think the problem is over reaching fans. . .

    Or maybe its just me. I really give 2 flips about what's happening at DC's "office" as long as the stories are great, the charcters are held to SOME kind of stable identity, and that the
    books arrive on time. . . It doesn't matter at all what dc is doing outside of that to and end use and its almost to the point that companies need to have a nda and stronger penalties for them.

    Someone will disagree, but to that person I say... then give up your cell phone.
    My priority is enjoying and supporting stories of timeless heroism and conflict.
    Everything else is irrelevant.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    4,428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    That's a pretty damn disgusting workplace culture.
    How is shit like that even possible nowadays???
    Where's the HR or legal people to speak to in the office?
    It is possible as long as they get away with it.

    And HR and legal won't care unless they are made to care.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    4,428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Güicho View Post
    So who all is (was) at this "Bat-family summit" ? (this would have coincided with the Tom King run on the main title, and approaching Detective Comics #1000 (was that the summit?))
    Was her Editor there? The (at the time) Robin writer? Batwoman? Batwing? Catwoman? Nightwing? Redhood? Was every Bat book writer and editor represented? Except her?
    Was it just her excluded? Was her contract for just a specific short run on Batgirl? And not the direction of the entire Bat franchise?
    This anecdote is meaningless without those details. ..facts.
    Yet the one offered is they lived near by (and what does proximity have to do with it?) Imagine the direction of Batman decided today because of who was closest, that Editor would be laughed out of the industry.

    As far as event books; Individual book creator's story-lines get left out, thrown out, changed, ignored, all the time, to follow the big "event" stories, which drive and take propriety all the time. Not everyone is invited to craft them either.
    We've seen countless writers (not gender specific) complain about the same, not even let in on the direction of the big event, or how it would effect their story and character. It happens all the time! Even with the most seasoned writers who have stuck it out, have their narrative curtailed for that years big event.
    It's cause acquiescent fans buy and follow events. At the expense of the regular character ongoings .
    So they cater to that.

    And she quit after 12 issues on Batgirl, cause she wasn't deciding the direction of the main Bat book?
    How many writers go (have gone with less pay and recognition) for years gone for a decade, without deciding the direction on Batman. hoping to one day get a shot.
    That's a dream!
    I have to wonder, was this a - "dream job" you know something people struggle and stick out with for long, or - a "dream" they don't recognize my instant entitlement now, so I quit!?
    What's the "real" problem?
    I'm going to answer this in the assumption that you are asking in good faith. But that assumption is very thin right now.

    It doesn't matter if she was hired as a small cog or to write the direction of the entire Bat-book set. DC had an all-hands meeting to discuss medium-to-long term development of the titles, and she wasn't invited, nor did she get the results of said meeting ASAP. Indeed, she wasn't even informed about it.

    I doubt she'd been allowed to—or even wanted to—decide on the direction of the entire Batfamily line. But as the writer for the Batgirl title she should have been given the opportunity to hear about the plans for the Batbooks just as any other Batwriter, and to hit up Tom King or the top editors on how to best fit her plans for the Batgirl book to the rest of the plans for the Batfamily.

    No-one said anything about proximity.

    Of course plans are changed, and DC far too often treat the writers (and artists) as interchangable cogs. But here they went out of their way to do so, and in a way that caused her the loss of more than a bit of labour—uncompensated by DC.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  8. #8
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    5,300

    Default

    This sounds like the Group Editor of the Batman books screwed up by not allowing the writer of Batgirl to be there, particularly since she offered to do it for free.

    You can't beat free.

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Güicho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,905

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I'm going to answer this ....
    You didn't answer a single one of my questions you quoted.
    You just inferred they don't matter.
    Is it cause you don't want them to matter?


    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    It doesn't matter if she was hired as a small cog or to write the direction of the entire Bat-book set.
    Of course it matters, was she exclusive to DC at the time? On salary to be there? Or would they have to pay extra, draw a new contract for her to be there, She's well known, has a strong career contracts and deals outside DC, in other comics and Animation.
    Of course what she was contracted to do (and not do) matters.


    And "free" are you kidding.? Nothing is free in business like this.
    If they had used any of her contributing ideas, they would be obliged and responsible to pay.

    Unless she signed that "take all my ideas for free" contract.
    No she didn't. And nobody would, and no company would allow it, as- if it's successful based on her ideas, and she didn't get payed they would rightfully get sued.
    That's why they have contracts, to make sure that stuff doesn't happen.

    ...Contracts don't matter, ....she was just giving away her ideas for free! LOL

    Do you guys just make stuff up, and don't look for, or try and present actual facts?
    If you can't answer my questions fine, just say that!

    Narrative spin: she was close by, and willing to work for free and they didn't call LOL!

    Real question: What was in her contract!?
    Last edited by Güicho; 06-25-2020 at 10:25 AM.

  10. #10
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    52,461

    Default

    This isn't the first time this has happened to a Batgirl writer. Bryan Q. Miller said on twitter he can relate.

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member Güicho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,905

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    This isn't the first time this has happened to a Batgirl writer. Bryan Q. Miller said on twitter he can relate.
    So based on that fact, why put a gender spin on the same now?


    Is DC's "real" problem that events (often driven by the latest popular No.1 selling hot creator of the time (was that her?)) have always run roughshod over the single ongoing books and creators left out of the loop and derailed(no mater how long they've been there).
    This isn't new, is it?
    Last edited by Güicho; 07-04-2020 at 04:50 AM.

  12. #12
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Naboo
    Posts
    4,251

    Default

    I already know events and sexism are cancer though!
    Last edited by Pinsir; 06-25-2020 at 09:47 AM.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

  13. #13
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    9,801

    Default

    Percy also ran for the hills after like 6 issues on Nightwing. Not sure if this is a sexist driven thing, which doesn't mean it isn't sexist, but poor and callus management. These last couple years especially the Bat line seems to be struggling to cultivate new talent on their books and have instead fallen back on in house "vets" and recurring names they are use to. Even King didn't have a graceful exit.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 06-25-2020 at 09:18 AM.

  14. #14
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,796

    Default

    The number of people willing to deny that gender discrimination even exists it mind boggling.
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  15. #15
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    52,461

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Güicho View Post
    So based on that fact, why put a gender spin on it now?


    Is DC's "real" problem that events (often driven by the latest popular No. selling hot creator of the time (was that her?)) have always run roughshod over the single ongoing books and creators left out of the loop and derailed(no mater how long they've been there).
    This isn't new, is it?
    Would she have been the only woman involved in the entire process? It may not have been intentional, but it does have some implications to that effect.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •