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  1. #1
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Default Which is the best way to read Kirby's Fourth World?

    I have got another student obsessed with the whole Darkseid, Apokolips, Scott Free, Orion mythology.

    What's the best books to use? The New Gods collection? The Fourth World Omnibus? Or should I start with more recent stuff like Cosmic Odyssey, Final Crisis and Mister Miracle

  2. #2

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    Good Lord, if you want your student to continue to remain interested in Kirby's Fourth World, don't start with Final Crisis.

    If your student doesn't mind Silver Age/Bronze Age style comics writing, then the student should start at the beginning with the Fourth World Omnibus. It has all the Kirby issues from all the series arranged in the order they were published. Just make sure to get the 2nd printing that fixed a printing error (a page of Jimmy Olsen was omitted and other was printed twice in the book).

  3. #3
    Mighty Member jb681131's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I have got another student obsessed with the whole Darkseid, Apokolips, Scott Free, Orion mythology.

    What's the best books to use? The New Gods collection? The Fourth World Omnibus? Or should I start with more recent stuff like Cosmic Odyssey, Final Crisis and Mister Miracle
    So you are obsessed with Darkseid.
    First you must know that DC had a major Reboot in 1985 with Crisis On Infinit Earths (COIE).
    And another rebood in 2011 with Flashpoint.
    But Darkseid didn't get much reworked.

    The easiest way is to read the DC Events/Crisis in chronological order because they form a major ongoing story implying Darkseid as the Big vilain:

    1. Crisis On Infinit Earths (COIE)
    2. DC: Legends <- very important
    3. Indentity Crisis
    4. Infinit Crisis
    5. 52 <- optional but very good
    6. Final Crisis
    7. Flashpoint <- optional but introduces the New52 era
    8. Trinity War + Forever Evil / Forever Heroes + Darkseid War
    9. Superman: Lois & Clark + The Final Days of Superman - optional but part of Road to Rebirth
    10. Titan Hunt <- optional but part of Road to Rebirth
    11. The Watchmen - important for the Rebirth Storyline !
    12. DC Univers Rebirth
    13. The Return of Wally West <- optional but sequel to Rebirth
    14. Batman/Flash: The Badge <- optional but sequel to Rebirth
    15. Superman: Reborn <- sequel to Rebirth
    16. Titans: The Lazarus Contract <- sequel to Rebirth
    17. Action Comics: The Oz Effet - optional but part of Road to Doomsday Clock
    18. Detective Comics: A Lonely Place of Living - optional but part of Road to Doomsday Clock
    19. Justice League of America: Panic in the Microvers - optional but part of Road to Doomsday Clock
    20. Doomsday Clock
    21. Three Jokers - upcomming.


    then You have 2 founding works on Darkseid - pre-COIE.

    • The Fourth World by Jack Kirby - The original saga he starred in
    • Legion of Super-Heroes: The Great Darkness Saga


    And for Scott Free (aka Mirster Miracle) you can also read as a stand-alone:

    • Mister Miracle by Tom King


    You don't need the have read the Fourth World to follow the Modern age crisis storyline.

    Have fun !
    Last edited by jb681131; 06-27-2020 at 07:10 AM.

  4. #4
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comic-Reader Lad View Post
    Good Lord, if you want your student to continue to remain interested in Kirby's Fourth World, don't start with Final Crisis.

    If your student doesn't mind Silver Age/Bronze Age style comics writing, then the student should start at the beginning with the Fourth World Omnibus. It has all the Kirby issues from all the series arranged in the order they were published. Just make sure to get the 2nd printing that fixed a printing error (a page of Jimmy Olsen was omitted and other was printed twice in the book).
    You'd be surprised how well Final Crisis holds up now that it's removed from the crossover event cluster#@% and Morrison was allowed to re-edit the story. I read this one with a student last year and it was great. That story has aged well.

    I will start with the Fourth World Omnibus. I do everything digitally, so presumably there's no printing errors there

    Thanks

  5. #5
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jb681131 View Post
    So you are obsessed with Darkseid.
    First you must know that DC had a major Reboot in 1985 with Crisis On Infinit Earths (COIE).
    And another rebood in 2011 with Flashpoint.
    But Darkseid didn't get much reworked.

    The easiest way is to read the DC Events/Crisis in chronological order because they form a major ongoing story implying Darkseid as the Big vilain:

    1. Crisis On Infinit Earths (COIE)
    2. DC: Legends <- very important
    3. Indentity Crisis
    4. Infinit Crisis
    5. 52 <- optional but very good
    6. Final Crisis
    7. Flashpoint <- optional but introduces the New52 era
    8. Trinity War + Forever Evil / Forever Heroes + Darkseid War
    9. Superman: Lois & Clark + The Final Days of Superman - optional but part of Road to Rebirth
    10. Titan Hunt <- optional but part of Road to Rebirth
    11. The Watchmen - important for the Rebirth Storyline !
    12. DC Univers Rebirth
    13. The Return of Wally West <- optional but sequel to Rebirth
    14. Batman/Flash: The Badge <- optional but sequel to Rebirth
    15. Superman: Reborn <- sequel to Rebirth
    16. Titans: The Lazarus Contract <- sequel to Rebirth
    17. Action Comics: The Oz Effet - optional but part of Road to Doomsday Clock
    18. Detective Comics: A Lonely Place of Living - optional but part of Road to Doomsday Clock
    19. Justice League of America: Panic in the Microvers - optional but part of Road to Doomsday Clock
    20. Doomsday Clock
    21. Three Jokers - upcomming.


    then You have 2 founding works on Darkseid - pre-COIE.

    • The Fourth World by Jack Kirby - The original saga he starred in
    • Legion of Super-Heroes: The Great Darkness Saga


    And for Scott Free (aka Mirster Miracle) you can also read as a stand-alone:

    • Mister Miracle by Tom King


    You don't need the have read the Fourth World to follow the Modern age crisis storyline.

    Have fun !
    Sorry, but I am not going to have my student read all that stuff since most of it is barely connected to Darkseid or the Fourth World.

  6. #6
    Mighty Member jb681131's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Sorry, but I am not going to have my student read all that stuff since most of it is barely connected to Darkseid or the Fourth World.
    Well then forget doing a study on Darkseid because you can't grasp who he realy is with one book and you can't understand is role in the univers without having to full plot !
    But if you really want to continue with Darkseid, the only story you can read by itself would be "DC: Legends".

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    I'm on a New Gods re-discovery journey myself. Finishing up Kirby's New Gods, about to head into Cosmic Odyssey, and then probably looking at New Gods Vol. 3 or Byrne's run.

    Mr. Miracle was excellent, and Final Crisis was dope but due for a re-read also. But you'd probably leave those for later, I agree.

  8. #8
    Fantastic Member The Cheat's Avatar
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    Just to be contrary, Final Crisis was my intro into the DCU and I've loved the New Gods ever since

    The Kirby stuff is better though.

  9. #9
    Mighty Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    I am a big fan of Final Crisis myself. I would recommend JLA Rock of Ages, the Orion series by Walter Simonson, and even Tales of Asgard by Lee and Kirby. I think the Bug series from the Young Animal line by Mike Allred is also worth checking out in addition to Tom King's Mr. Miracle. I am surprised the student wants to read the original Kirby series, I think it took me 20 years to finally appreciate what was going on in those old books.

  10. #10
    Mighty Member jb681131's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cheat View Post
    Just to be contrary, Final Crisis was my intro into the DCU and I've loved the New Gods ever since

    The Kirby stuff is better though.
    Yes all of Kirby's creations have never been written better than he did.
    I wish he could have really concluded his Fourth World Saga.
    An Kirby's art adds a lot to his storytelling.


  11. #11
    Incredible Member chachi's Avatar
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    sitting in a comfortable chair.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    Here are my recommendations.

    Kirby’s 4th World Omnibus - 1970

    Justice League of America vol 1 #183-185 Apokolips Now! - 1980

    Legion of Superheroes The Great Darkness Saga - 1982

    John Ostrander’s Legends + the Superman tie-ins by Byrne Superman vol 2 #3, Adventures of Superman #426, Action Comics #586 - 1986

    Jim Starlin’s Cosmic Odyssey - 1988

    Grant Morrison’s JLA vol 2-3. Rock of Ages - World War III/Mageddon - 1997

    Walter Simonson’s Orion Omnibus - 2000

    Grant Morrison’s Seven Soldiers of Victory Mister Miracle (optional) - 2005

    Grant Morrison’s Final Crisis - 2008


    For animation:
    Superman TAS
    Tools of the Trade - Intergang and Darkseid
    Father’s Day - Superman meets Kalibak and Darkseid for the 1st time
    Apokolips Now! Part 1-2 - Darkseid invades and Supes meets Orion
    Little Girl Lost - Superman and Supergirl vs Granny and the Furies
    Legacy Part 1-2 - Adaptation of Byrne’s story during Legends


    Justice League/JLU TAS
    Twilight (of the Gods) - Picks up where Superman TAS left off from Legacy.
    Alive! - Luthor’s attempts to revive Brainac resurrect Darkseid instead.
    Destroyer - Series Finale - Darkseid invades Earth and the League and Legion of Doom join together to fight.


    DCAU movies - Justice League War, Death and Reign of Superman, and Justice League Dark Apokolips War.


    All of these are accessible and adequately tell the tale and expose what Darkseid is about. Quick research and reference should allow you and your student to easily discern the most appropriate and accessible forms of media to invest in. Best of luck.
    Last edited by Doctor Know; 06-27-2020 at 06:35 PM.

  13. #13
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chachi View Post
    sitting in a comfortable chair.
    I don't know, I kind of prefer reading in bed myself.

  14. #14
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I have got another student obsessed with the whole Darkseid, Apokolips, Scott Free, Orion mythology.

    What's the best books to use? The New Gods collection? The Fourth World Omnibus? Or should I start with more recent stuff like Cosmic Odyssey, Final Crisis and Mister Miracle
    If they want to read silver age then:
    New Gods by Kirby
    Mister Miracle
    Forever People

    Then:
    New Gods v2, v3
    Mister Miracle v2
    Orion
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  15. #15
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jb681131 View Post
    Well then forget doing a study on Darkseid because you can't grasp who he realy is with one book and you can't understand is role in the univers without having to full plot !
    But if you really want to continue with Darkseid, the only story you can read by itself would be "DC: Legends".
    We're not doing a study on Darkseid. He's just interested in the Fourth World mythology, so having him read a bunch of DCU events that have nothing to do with that stuff doesn't make much sense. It'd be like telling a kid who likes Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker to watch all the films of Akira Kurosawa before having him watch the other Star Wars films.

    Thanks though.

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