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  1. #61
    MXAAGVNIEETRO IS RIGHT MyriVerse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    Why in hell anyone would watch a cop show is beyond my comprehension.
    There is the mystery part, however weak it is.

    The characters usually have fun quirks (goth cutey in the lab, this cop over here loves classic movies, nerdy newbie partner, father-figure leader, maybe a badass female cop). Otherwise, they are just an extension of the cowboys of the past. People do like fictional vigilantes. It's practically instinctual.
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  2. #62
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    True Detective, Fargo...
    In fairness, those aren't procedurals. Those shows are very much more about relationships, personalities, and faults all being brought to light by a single case. And in a couple instances, it ends up being so traumatic that the protagonists are fundamentally changed or even outright quit the force by the end from the trauma (and that's not counting the fact that some of the cops on those shows *are* corrupt).

    Most cop shows, by contrast, depend on a certain level of status quo and resetting the stage each week. And a media observer deeper than me could maybe make the argument that that status quo is what helps perpetuate a certain image of TV cops that distorts reality. Conversely, each season of True Detective and Fargo is essentially a new cast with a new story in sometimes even a different period of time only tangentially connected by universe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Smith View Post
    On a technical note, most police shows have zero idea on firearms usage. Law and Order, SVU is an atrocity of firearms procedures. Olivia, in constant rebellion against the system, would have been transferred to the property room. All the Law and Order shows violate rights all the time.
    *THIS* is something that drives me nuts, but then there are so many folks who therefore mimic misuse of guns because of TV/Film. The recent anti-mask protests, as well as a recent picture of a St. Louis couple at home aiming guns at BLM protesters, showed too many fingers on triggers, with guns aimed at their peaceful opposition. Two gigantic no-nos.

    (just to be clear, this is me blaming TV for incorrect training, not behavior)
    Last edited by Cyke; 06-29-2020 at 01:42 PM.

  3. #63
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    This is a fantastic issue to discuss; and has been very informative to read. I will throw out one cop show that seems to be doing all the things many want is Prime Suspect with Helen Mirren. Season 1 is very much about the misogyny in the police mirrored by the misogyny of the serial killer. Season 2 tackles race in the police, police brutality of black suspects, how it effects black cops, the death of a black minor in the police station. Season 3 about covering up of a pedo ring, linked to corrupt cops. Etc, etc.

    That said, I do love Brooklyn 99. And it's not "an issues" show specifically, but does tackle certain things in certain ways. Even from the first episode they discussed how the Captain was passed over for promotion because he was black and gay. They have talked about racial profiling when Terry got harassed in civilian clothes by a cop. They did an episode about #MeToo. But it IS a comedy show, that verges on absurdism. Sometimes a cigar should just be a cigar.
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  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Güicho View Post
    Further was a A Man Called Hawk spun-off of Spenser: For Hire, and novels by Robert B. Parker, into his own show.

    ha! criminally underrated. It should have lasted several seasons, but hopefully not preventing his stint on Star Trek.

  5. #65
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    The link doesn't work, but yeah...the problem isn't the genre of cop shows. If there is a problem it's more the glorification of rule breaking cops.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    The problem is the rule breakers always do it to the guilty person. When has a cop show shown an office beat or kill a completely innocent person? Cop shows in general are not a problem, how they portray Police Brutality is.
    You know what's unintentionally funny? There actually was an episode of Law and Order:Criminal Intent where Chris Noth's character accidently shot an undercover cop and nothing happened because of it. They didn't take his gun, have an investigation, or even take him off the case ( unless I'm remembering it wrong). It was like he was depressed for a day, then they went on to solve the case.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    You know what's unintentionally funny? There actually was an episode of Law and Order:Criminal Intent where Chris Noth's character accidently shot an undercover cop and nothing happened because of it. They didn't take his gun, have an investigation, or even take him off the case ( unless I'm remembering it wrong). It was like he was depressed for a day, then they went on to solve the case.
    A similar thing happened in CSI: New York but with slightly stricter consequences. In the episode, "On The Job" Danny shoots and kills an undercover cop who is ultimately revealed to be dirty. However, before the cop's corruption is uncovered, Danny is in a lot of hot water for killing him as evidence comes in that he shot him while he insists he was justified. At one point, Danny even claims Mac only cares about the unit's reputation over proving his innocence. In the end, Danny is allowed to keep his job but loses out on a promotion and Mac tells him in no uncertain terms that this type of reckless behavior is why he was reluctant to hire him.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    Why in hell anyone would watch a cop show is beyond my comprehension.
    Some shows do a better job of being decent or balance or aas others have said focus more on the person versus a story.

    Homicide Life on The Street had a creator that did his research before doing it and Oz, The Wire and so on.

    Prime Suspect is a good one too.

    I want to watch the Rookie but if all Titus Makin Jr is defined by is being a cop's kid and gay-no thanks. There has to be more to him than that. Yet the reviews I see only mention that if they mention him at all.

    Other shows I tired of seeing the criminals be POC.

  9. #69
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    The funny thing is, here on Brasil almost ever the cops are the bad guys and corrupt on movies and tv, unless they are the main character, in that case they just commit a lot of police brutality. One of the most famous brazilian movies, Tropa de Elite (Elite Squad), took a lot of flack for glorify police brutality, the main characters torture and kill the whole movie, but because they don't take money from criminals they are the "good guys".

  10. #70
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    Why in hell anyone would watch a cop show is beyond my comprehension.
    I'm certainly not a fan of cop dramas (though I do like true crime docs). Like medical dramas, to me there's just too many that do the exact same thing, but its rather easy to see the appeal. They're like aforementioned true crime documentaries, just heavily dramatized, peppered with character arcs, and with clean cut endings. Its pretty understandable why people would like them even if it's not for me.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 06-30-2020 at 12:19 PM.
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  11. #71
    Incredible Member TriggerWarning's Avatar
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    As a cop (I am and no I'm not going to doxx myself and prove it, you can believe it or not) I think TV and movies have been very harmful overall to police because of how badly they program people to believe what police work really is and what use of force actually looks like.

    1. Others have mentioned the CSI effect. Its real. People think that there is going to be forensic evidence in every case. In reality its a fraction under 1%. People think we can get fingerprints off of everything. Yes an expert with the top of the line equipment and chemicals might be able to get prints off of most things but the average street cop at best has powder and a brush which isn't much good for anything except hard smooth surfaces. And even then you mostly get smudges on top of smudges. They expect we can get DNA results back in a day or two - in reality if it not a murder case it might be a YEAR or two.

    2. Use of Force. On TV its like a game of tag and the run of the mill bad guys give up the second the cop touches them and mildly pulls their arms behind their backs. Reality is closer to an MMA fight without any of the skill when you've got someone actually fighting. Its ugly, its messy, and its very violent looking.

    3. Being shot. On TV bad guys give up the second they are shot in the arm or leg. Which leads to the idiotic "shoot them in the leg" arguments you get from cop critics. The reality is much closer to what the hero of the action film does when they get shot. They grunt, they swear,and they keep fighting. Its only after a lot of bullets that they actually go down.

    4. Shooting accuracy. On TV the hero cop never misses whereas the bad guy misses most of the time except for the dramatic flesh wound the hero might receive that doesn't slow them down (see point 3). In reality both cops and bad guys when shooting with handguns miss most of the time. You can't replicate the effects of adrenaline on the range and adrenaline impairs your vision, critical thinking, and fine motor skills. All of which are important to accuracy. Studies have been done of police shootings and the overall accuracy with handguns nationwide year after year usually runs 10-15%. Plus targets on the range don't move unexpectedly just as you've made the decision to fire. Which again goes back to the idiocy of "shoot them in the legs." Its a small target that will be in motion meaning officers will miss even more.

    5. Corrupt cops. All the cop critics act like the bad cops are these mustache twirling guys who openly go around committing crime and always doing bad in part because thats what you see most of the time with bad cops on TV as they are caricatures rather than shades of grey. Reality is closer to someone like Vic Mackey on The Shield. There are some definite Hollywood excesses in the The Shield but if you saw it then Vic Mackey was very corrupt. He murdered, he stole, and he violated rights all the time. He was also a very good cop at times risking his life to save people and frequently making good arrests. Vic always hid his corruption and abuses and while the good cops on the dept suspected him they couldn't prove what he did.

    6. Cop fighting skills. TV cops are experts at hand to hand fighting and unless its against the big bad of the show will always win fairly easily against the bad guys. Reality is that most cops possess no more hand to hand martial arts skills than the guy serving you burgers at a restaurant. We get some training in the academy but not enough to become skilled. Actually becoming proficient in something like Brazilian Ju Jitsu (the latest martial arts fad being trained to law enforcement) takes continuous practice and its a perishable skill that you lose quickly without such practice. 99.9% of cops will agree we need far more training in these things but it comes down to time and money. Departments nationwide are understaffed and a cop in training is a cop not taking calls and crime doesn't take training days off. Plus cops have to be trained in a myriad of other things. So we are lucky if we get any kinds of hands on martial arts training every other year or so and even then its next to worthless as your going to be doing it a 1/4 speed against a compliant partner in order to try and avoid injuries (even at this speed injuries do happen which means officers out on workmens comp and shifts being more understaffed) . This is why so often cops resort to punching because thats all they know.

    7. Innocent victims. TV makes it always very clear who is the innocent victim and who is the bad guy. Reality is much more muddy and often its two people who both have fault in the matter - think two guys fighting at the bar only this is a majority of disturbance and domestics we go on with no clear aggressor or victim. Who has the injuries doesn't prove anything except there was a fight as those injuries might be self defense - case in a point a guy once wanted his wife arrested for biting him - the bite mark was on the forearm and exactly where one would be bit if you were choking someone from behind. Unfortunately most injuries aren't that easy to show how they happened. Who called 911 doesn't mean anything either as often the aggressor calls hoping to paint themselves as the victim.

    8. Tasers. You never actually see real tasers on TV, what you see are stun guns and when someone gets zapped they fall down and are out for minutes. Those kind of stun guns in reality are not incapacitating at all, they just hurt like hell. A taser can incapacitate but only for 5 seconds at a time. A taser shoots two probes on wires and only locks up the muscles between the probes. If the probes are only 6 inches apart you'll get some pain but no incapacitation. If one probe is above the waist and the other on a leg the person is falling down. If either probe fails to make solid contact there is no effect. Tasers fail about 50% of the time, usually due to one of the probes not making contact.

    9. What police are and aren't required to do and what their rights are. On TV if they don't read you miranda you have a get out of jail free card. In reality we rarely read miranda as its NOT required. All miranda does is advise of you of rights when you are under arrest or obviously not free to go and if its not read then any QUESTIONS we ask you afterwards are inadmissable. If we aren't planning to question you then we don't read it and most of the time when the arrest comes we are done questioning. Police searches - contrary to internet opinion a warrant isn't required for a search or entry to a home - its only required for a search where the owner does not give consent or there isn't some court exception: 1) If you are arrested in your car the police can search your car for multiple different reasons without a warrant and without consent - Gant v Arizona gives the power to search for items related to what your being arrested for, for instance in a DUI the car can be searched for impairing substances, 2) Exigent circumstances - if there is an emergency going on we can enter your home without a warrant and if we see drugs or something in plain view then it falls under the plain view exception - for instance I responded to a domestic recently and at the door I can hear yelling and screaming and glass breaking, this is called an emergency as someone could be getting hurt (and she was by the way) so I entered and there was a bong on the table, 3) Consent - this is the big one and actually covers the majority of searches, if you give the cops permission they can search even without a warrant.

  12. #72
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    Why in hell anyone would watch a cop show is beyond my comprehension.
    Depends on the cop show.
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  13. #73
    Spectacular Member Stick Figure's Avatar
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    I was flipping channels the other day and stopped on some old black & white movie. What caught my eye was there’s an interrogation scene. Couple cops surrounding a suspect, smoke everywhere, and the cops just wearing the suspect out. Finally one guy says “let me have him for 20 minutes and he’ll talk”. Watching, I couldn’t believe no one complained about movies like that before.

    I guess I wish the number of crime shows was reduced. I just tend to feel they’re nothing but propaganda. As for old movies, people should definitely have access to them but I’m not sure about channels like Turner Classic that run them constantly. I don’t know if I’d want a child stumbling onto a movie like the one I described. I’m watching and I’m thinking the cops are the bad guys!

  14. #74
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy1 View Post
    Depends on the cop show.
    LOL it cracks me up that the Dekaranger 10 Years After special started off as a case of police corruption leading to a larger conspiracy.

    Let me reiterate: the source material is a KIDS SUPERHERO SHOW. Granted, it shows that 10 Years After was to cater both to kids and the audience that grew up with the show so there'd be some added maturity issues that weren't there before, but that was a fairly big leap in content.

    (but just to reaffirm, it was a pretty great special)

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stick Figure View Post
    I was flipping channels the other day and stopped on some old black & white movie. What caught my eye was there’s an interrogation scene. Couple cops surrounding a suspect, smoke everywhere, and the cops just wearing the suspect out. Finally one guy says “let me have him for 20 minutes and he’ll talk”. Watching, I couldn’t believe no one complained about movies like that before.

    I guess I wish the number of crime shows was reduced. I just tend to feel they’re nothing but propaganda. As for old movies, people should definitely have access to them but I’m not sure about channels like Turner Classic that run them constantly. I don’t know if I’d want a child stumbling onto a movie like the one I described. I’m watching and I’m thinking the cops are the bad guys!
    If you mean they were trying to beat a confession out of him that was called the 3rd degree. Police brutality today is far,far less than it used to be.

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