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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by regnak View Post
    If you mean they were trying to beat a confession out of him that was called the 3rd degree. Police brutality today is far,far less than it used to be.
    The only thing that's changed about police brutality now is how many people can see it thanks to video and cameras. Police brutality hasn't lessened, if anything it's gotten worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy1 View Post
    Depends on the cop show.
    This reminds me. While Power Rangers: Time Force still has great character writing but when it comes to the police aspects, it really hasn't aged well.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 07-01-2020 at 09:47 PM.

  2. #77
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    Some of that makes me wonder what in like 20 years will people be offended by and look back at the movies that we view as being great or classics and the future people will view them as so horrible and think how could we love those movies...also when two parties are at odds both sides need to change, neither side is all good or all bad, there's bad and good on both sides, it's the finding a better way forward that's the problem, a better way for both groups...

  3. #78
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    Some of that makes me wonder what in like 20 years will people be offended by and look back at the movies that we view as being great or classics and the future people will view them as so horrible and think how could we love those movies...also when two parties are at odds both sides need to change, neither side is all good or all bad, there's bad and good on both sides, it's the finding a better way forward that's the problem, a better way for both groups...
    That's the thing. As a society we don't aim for perfection, we aim for progress, because the needs of society will always change. In 40 years we'll be looking back at what was unacceptable 20 years before that, and we have to be ok with that. That in itself shouldn't be a problem because we wouldn't get to that knowledge and discussion if it wasn't for the material that creates that foundation. We wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place if there were no cop shows at all, for one thing; likewise, this wouldn't be a topic if cop shows weren't consistently about portraying cops as heroes (as opposed to portraying cops as realistic humans, flaws and joys and all).

    As it is, worrying about the now being impacted by the past is one thing. But worrying about how what we make will be perceived in 20 years is a bit like putting the cart before the horse. It also perhaps muddies the fact that trying to find a way for both groups means creating false equivalencies when we should be aiming for goals from a standpoint of equity (that is, making up for loss and damage, rather than just assuming an even playing field for all -- When a cop is killed, the city will devote all its resources to finding the cop killer, which is understandable and within their duty. When a cop kills an innocent person or a suspect without justification, the city will devote all its resources to protecting that cop, which is not justice and is actually the unfair application of the city's might.).

    Also, I think there should be some credit to people taking up the agency on their own to be willing to change. We've already seen that from the Brooklyn 99 cast and crew (the fact that they scrapped their work for 8 episodes is unprecedented). Trey Stone and Matt Parker likewise have had some recent episodes of South Park from the past couple seasons that actually call out some of their earliest episodes. There's nothing wrong with a show or movie being a product of its time as long as it's acknowledged that it *is* a product of its time.

    On the flip side, this also means we should pay attention to the writing that were parables or foresaw today's problems, too (Star Trek's always been pretty big on this. And Fresh Prince keeps getting reevaluated every few years because it turns out it's so timely). Because we likely have those in the present about the next 20 years. I don't know what makes shows or themes timeless, but it tends to fall on the side of advocacy of the powerless rather than siding with those with power against the marginalized. In other words, punch up, not down:



    (white cop using a gun to make his point aside, of course. But up until last May we lived in a society that encouraged lock-ups, beat-downs, detention centers, children in cages, family separation, deportation, might-makes-right policies, uneven/unfair application of the law, skyrocketing police budgets, and the prison industrial complex, all facilitated by the increasing militarization of law enforcement as first resorts and the lack of accountability for police brutality, rather than actually getting down to root causes and humanistic reasons. We still have a long, long way to go from this clip.)
    Last edited by Cyke; 07-02-2020 at 09:30 PM.

  4. #79

  5. #80
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    I think there's a difference between a show like SVU and a Chicago PD. The first is a show about cops helping victims get justice. It's very victim oriented. And the cops are shown as sympathetic to the needs of the victims. It sort of sets an example for what we want cops to be. The other is very much one of those "the cops need to have the freedom to do what's necessary to catch the bad guys, up to and including, torture" type shows. It's more focused on the cops themselves and how those pesky rules get in the way of "real" justice. If a suspect knows where a bomb is and won't tell, you pull him into a closet and cut his ear off (actually happened on the show). One is more helpful than the other. It's the difference between the Superman method and the Batman method.

    People like the Superman method much more than the Batman method. Olivia Benson is a much more sympathetic figure than Hank Voigt. I didn't realize this until I read an article about it but apparently in the first episode of COPS one of the officers says something like "These white boys need to stop coming down here". "Down here" referring to a black neighborhood to buy drugs. This comes across as writing off the entire black community as just a bunch of drug dealers. And that only the "white boys" are worthy of saving. Granted this was 30 years ago but has that perception really changed? Both SVU and Chicago PD send conflicting messages about the cops. The best thing I think cop shows can do is do more episodes about why people don't trust the police. I never saw The Wire or NYPD Blue but I think a much more ambiguous view on the police would be more helpful than the either/or "saints or bastards" view we seem to have on network TV now. I think the most helpful thing they can do is stop portraying rule breakers as heroes. This narrative has become a trope. The Simpsons has made fun of it since the 1990s.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

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