Are cop shows a bad influence on people?

[Agent Z]

If you mean they were trying to beat a confession out of him that was called the 3rd degree. Police brutality today is far,far less than it used to be.

The only thing that's changed about police brutality now is how many people can see it thanks to video and cameras. Police brutality hasn't lessened, if anything it's gotten worse.

Depends on the cop show.

This reminds me. While Power Rangers: Time Force still has great character writing but when it comes to the police aspects, it really hasn't aged well.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Some of that makes me wonder what in like 20 years will people be offended by and look back at the movies that we view as being great or classics and the future people will view them as so horrible and think how could we love those movies...also when two parties are at odds both sides need to change, neither side is all good or all bad, there's bad and good on both sides, it's the finding a better way forward that's the problem, a better way for both groups...

[Cyke]

Some of that makes me wonder what in like 20 years will people be offended by and look back at the movies that we view as being great or classics and the future people will view them as so horrible and think how could we love those movies...also when two parties are at odds both sides need to change, neither side is all good or all bad, there's bad and good on both sides, it's the finding a better way forward that's the problem, a better way for both groups...

That's the thing. As a society we don't aim for perfection, we aim for progress, because the needs of society will always change. In 40 years we'll be looking back at what was unacceptable 20 years before that, and we have to be ok with that. That in itself shouldn't be a problem because we wouldn't get to that knowledge and discussion if it wasn't for the material that creates that foundation. We wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place if there were no cop shows at all, for one thing; likewise, this wouldn't be a topic if cop shows weren't consistently about portraying cops as heroes (as opposed to portraying cops as realistic humans, flaws and joys and all).

As it is, worrying about the now being impacted by the past is one thing. But worrying about how what we make will be perceived in 20 years is a bit like putting the cart before the horse. It also perhaps muddies the fact that trying to find a way for both groups means creating false equivalencies when we should be aiming for goals from a standpoint of equity (that is, making up for loss and damage, rather than just assuming an even playing field for all -- When a cop is killed, the city will devote all its resources to finding the cop killer, which is understandable and within their duty. When a cop kills an innocent person or a suspect without justification, the city will devote all its resources to protecting that cop, which is not justice and is actually the unfair application of the city's might.).

Also, I think there should be some credit to people taking up the agency on their own to be willing to change. We've already seen that from the Brooklyn 99 cast and crew (the fact that they scrapped their work for 8 episodes is unprecedented). Trey Stone and Matt Parker likewise have had some recent episodes of South Park from the past couple seasons that actually call out some of their earliest episodes. There's nothing wrong with a show or movie being a product of its time as long as it's acknowledged that it *is* a product of its time.

On the flip side, this also means we should pay attention to the writing that were parables or foresaw today's problems, too (Star Trek's always been pretty big on this. And Fresh Prince keeps getting reevaluated every few years because it turns out it's so timely). Because we likely have those in the present about the next 20 years. I don't know what makes shows or themes timeless, but it tends to fall on the side of advocacy of the powerless rather than siding with those with power against the marginalized. In other words, punch up, not down:



(white cop using a gun to make his point aside, of course. But up until last May we lived in a society that encouraged lock-ups, beat-downs, detention centers, children in cages, family separation, deportation, might-makes-right policies, uneven/unfair application of the law, skyrocketing police budgets, and the prison industrial complex, all facilitated by the increasing militarization of law enforcement as first resorts and the lack of accountability for police brutality, rather than actually getting down to root causes and humanistic reasons. We still have a long, long way to go from this clip.)

[QuinnFillory]

Here is another article: https://comic-watch.com/news/are-sup...IM4L2bBf2v2Xb4

And, another one: https://time.com/5857064/defunding-p...roes-onscreen/

[superduperman]

I think there's a difference between a show like SVU and a Chicago PD. The first is a show about cops helping victims get justice. It's very victim oriented. And the cops are shown as sympathetic to the needs of the victims. It sort of sets an example for what we want cops to be. The other is very much one of those "the cops need to have the freedom to do what's necessary to catch the bad guys, up to and including, torture" type shows. It's more focused on the cops themselves and how those pesky rules get in the way of "real" justice. If a suspect knows where a bomb is and won't tell, you pull him into a closet and cut his ear off (actually happened on the show). One is more helpful than the other. It's the difference between the Superman method and the Batman method.

People like the Superman method much more than the Batman method. Olivia Benson is a much more sympathetic figure than Hank Voigt. I didn't realize this until I read an article about it but apparently in the first episode of COPS one of the officers says something like "These white boys need to stop coming down here". "Down here" referring to a black neighborhood to buy drugs. This comes across as writing off the entire black community as just a bunch of drug dealers. And that only the "white boys" are worthy of saving. Granted this was 30 years ago but has that perception really changed? Both SVU and Chicago PD send conflicting messages about the cops. The best thing I think cop shows can do is do more episodes about why people don't trust the police. I never saw The Wire or NYPD Blue but I think a much more ambiguous view on the police would be more helpful than the either/or "saints or bastards" view we seem to have on network TV now. I think the most helpful thing they can do is stop portraying rule breakers as heroes. This narrative has become a trope. The Simpsons has made fun of it since the 1990s.

[Hypestyle]

Looks like the Eliot Stabler character is back on Law & Order Organized Crime.

It is an intriguing reboot, though I'm wondering if a creative choice that spurs his character's agency in the new storyline could have been done differently.

[Somecrazyaussie]

Looks like the Eliot Stabler character is back on Law & Order Organized Crime.

It is an intriguing reboot, though I'm wondering if a creative choice that spurs his character's agency in the new storyline could have been done differently.

You didn't know? His return has been anticipated since it was announced a year and a bit ago. Originally he thought it was just going to tie up his arc on SVU, but they instead said, "nope. Here is your own show".

The thing about Stabler is, people loved him BECAUSE he cut corners and went to extremes to help/protect victims. But it is a different world now and his whole arc has to reflect the change and see how he acclimates to it. There is no way he can get away with some of the stuff he did when SVU started. Not since Dick Wolf said they want to make L&O more reflective of what people want/expect from police in a BLM landscape.

[babyblob]

See I enjoy my cop shows. I know they are a little some sided and unrealistic at times.

The original Dragnet was one of my favorites. I watch Blue Bloods every day (Thought I really hate Danny) and The Shield was a lot of fun.

Hated the CSI shows.

I dont mind shows that show a cop as a bad guy or powerful police unions protecting bad cops because that does happen. I just dont want to see a show where every cop is bad or the police beat people every episode.

[Nate Grey]

You didn't know? His return has been anticipated since it was announced a year and a bit ago. Originally he thought it was just going to tie up his arc on SVU, but they instead said, "nope. Here is your own show".

The thing about Stabler is, people loved him BECAUSE he cut corners and went to extremes to help/protect victims. But it is a different world now and his whole arc has to reflect the change and see how he acclimates to it. There is no way he can get away with some of the stuff he did when SVU started. Not since Dick Wolf said they want to make L&O more reflective of what people want/expect from police in a BLM landscape.

Watching the premiere of Law & Order: Organized Crime (wasn't there a L&O thread around here?) my theory is to take all of that, all that Elliot was, and put him in a situation where he's essentially the lone cowboy against overwhelming odds, namely a crime family. Which makes more sense then roughing up perps to solve the case of the week. This time it's him against a villain (Dylan McDermott) that presumably won't get busted till the season finale, if even that.

Cops like Elliot either need to go the way of the dodo, or be put in a situation where their history works in their favor. The former is easier, the latter almost never happens, but here they found a way.

[Hypestyle]

You didn't know? His return has been anticipated since it was announced a year and a bit ago. Originally he thought it was just going to tie up his arc on SVU, but they instead said, "nope. Here is your own show".

The thing about Stabler is, people loved him BECAUSE he cut corners and went to extremes to help/protect victims. But it is a different world now and his whole arc has to reflect the change and see how he acclimates to it. There is no way he can get away with some of the stuff he did when SVU started. Not since Dick Wolf said they want to make L&O more reflective of what people want/expect from police in a BLM landscape.

I wonder if the show will lean into the "old timer vs new rules" backdrop consistently or is it only going to be addressed in the first couple of episodes and then after that, it's the same older formula. I guess we'll have to see.

spoilers:

I guess the 20-something hacker will be part of the show. I wonder is she a civilian, presumably? And how does Stabler feel about that vs working with sworn-officer cops. The female boss of the unit is intriguing, I guess more of her backstory may eventually come out. I see there's another guy who seems to be around Stabler's age (or a touch older), I don't know what his role is. Is he NYPD? Is he federal? Dylan McDermott as a gangster? okay, that's different. And the ex-wife is, uh, well, clearly still close.. and I don't know how much she may be involved in the "stuff" that his business enterprise involves.

end of spoilers

[Agent Z]

[green_garnish]

Is The Dark Knight a bad influence on people? Joker? Spiderman 2?

Are people a bad influence on people? How about the president, or the prime minister? What about your local jerk senator?

Maybe we should add NFL players or coaches, or movie directors, or actors...

[The Cool Thatguy]

Is The Dark Knight a bad influence on people? Joker? Spiderman 2?

Are people a bad influence on people? How about the president, or the prime minister? What about your local jerk senator?

Maybe we should add NFL players or coaches, or movie directors, or actors...

Hmm, are all those people a constant presence in popular culture always being glorified?

[green_garnish]

Hmm, are all those people a constant presence in popular culture always being glorified?

Pretty much yeah.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Pretty much yeah.

Umm, no.

The idea that popular culture has no influence on society is foolish at best. The whole concept that we're entitled to 'one phone call' is a fiction created by TV and allowed by police in the hopes of getting information. The army had to remind it's soldiers that torture wasn't a valid technique to extract information.

So yeah, Stabler having to fight the system constantly to make sure the rapist doesn't get off on a technicality does leave a mark on society