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  1. #76
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Im opposite. I wasnt feeling it as much when playing the second half of the game for story reasons, ranked it below the first game and would give it an 8.5 but after beating it and with time removed, I see it as a masterpiece. 10/10 game

  2. #77
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Im opposite. I wasnt feeling it as much when playing the second half of the game for story reasons, ranked it below the first game and would give it an 8.5 but after beating it and with time removed, I see it as a masterpiece. 10/10 game
    I'll be considerably surprised if people still feel this way in a couple of years. Give it time. Bioshock Infinite was an untouchable masterpiece a year into launch and then after people sunk their teeth in and so on, they realized there was nothing there and its shine faded and never came back.

  3. #78
    Incredible Member TriggerWarning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I'll be considerably surprised if people still feel this way in a couple of years. Give it time. Bioshock Infinite was an untouchable masterpiece a year into launch and then after people sunk their teeth in and so on, they realized there was nothing there and its shine faded and never came back.
    Its only been 1.5 months but my feelings are only growing stronger about this game. I played it and was blown away. Was ready to declare it best game of the current console generation right then. I immediately went and played the first again, first time in about 5 years, and found it so wanting in comparison til the end when the bond between Joel and Ellie finally connects at which point I remembered why I loved it so much. Then i played II again and it still was great.

    Now a month later having not played it I only feel stronger and if anything my statement of best game of the generation, formerly held by Horizon Zero Dawn in my book, is faint praise. This IMO is the best overall game ever made because it completely transcends what a video game is thought to be capable of. For comparison, I'll use the Uncharted games which are also by Naughty Dog and because after TLOU2 I decided to go back and finally do these games. I'm on the last one, Thiefs End, right now. They are fun games and tell a great story but when I'm done with them they don't linger with me. Its been a month since TLOU2 and I still think about how emotionally invested I was in the game and how it so emotionally connected me to the game: Only two other games ever in my life have done that for me: the First Last of Us and Horizon Zero Dawn. By comparison in the third Uncharted game there is a scene where you think Sully died and I just kinda yawned and went on. While the games are well told and fun they lack the emotional transcendence that the TLOU games gave.

  4. #79
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriggerWarning View Post
    This IMO is the best overall game ever made because it completely transcends what a video game is thought to be capable of.
    Leaving aside my and your subjective feelings,
    -- TLOU2 is not especially innovative in gameplay terms. It's basically a standard third person shooter, and in terms of using gun mechanics to convey meaning about the impact and nature of violence, stuff like Far Cry 2 has it beat. That game had weapon degradation and jamming of guns in key moments so that emphasizes the tension, paranoia, and fear in any gunfight as well as the brutality and psychology of being in conflict, being constantly on the move and so on. Whereas TLOU-2 is essentially a military fantasy where even in a post-apocalyptic system you don't have weapons that get jammed and need to be kept clean and maintained. The weapon upgrade systems with its detailed animations adding upgrades in loving visuals, is classic "weapons porn" all said and done and in fact serves as a perfect example of "ludonarrative dissonance" because the solid gun mechanics does run counter to the game's criticism of violence and conflict. The finale where ycu go in and satisfyingly kill all those Rattlers at the end and except for the part you meet Abby, it's all played as Rah-Rah.
    -- In terms of level design, TLOU-2 is classic point-A to point-B linear storytelling, and in fact many people have criticized the game for dispensing with the platforming and traversal puzzles that you had in the first game and in fact other ND games like Uncharted. When people consider innovative games on this front, they think of Sands of Time, or ICO.
    -- Most of the emotional moments in TLOU-2 happen entirely in cutscenes rather than gameplay. If you were to remove the cutscenes of TLOU-2 and consider the actual gameplay component, I think TLOU-2 would be severely and drastically reduced and diminished.
    -- In storytelling terms, almost every beat in the game has precedents. The whole controversy of switching from Ellie to Abby is basically Metal Gear Solid 2 Snake-to-Raiden all over again. The concept of forgiving a villain who hurt someone you love was done in DISHONORED with Corvo and Daud. Killing off a player character from a previous game in a cutscene by a character who you later play was done in GTAV when Trevor stomped the face of Johnny Klebitz in his opening cutscene, and then the first playable mission has you going on to massacre what's left of his supporting cast from The Lost and the Damned. Deconstruction of the protagonist and so on was done with Spec Ops the Line among others.

    So in most respects, TLOU-2 is not an innovative or original title in gameplay, or storytelling. Graphically it's quite a leap, and technically in terms of motion capture performance it's quite advanced, some of the presentation and consumer-approach, i.e. the accessibility system is definitely a step up. But in general it lacks the substance of what is truly considered the greatest games ever made, whether we are talking of the creativity and level design and ludic possibilities of Super Mario 64 or Portal and Portal 2 which is still among the very few truly original games made in the last decades, or the mystery and poetry of ICO and Shadow of the Colossus, not to mention its visual richness. In terms of storytelling it lacks the epic scope, detail, intricacy, polish and emotional richness of titles like The Witcher III and, as you mentioned, Horizon Zero Dawn.

    For comparison, I'll use the Uncharted games which are also by Naughty Dog and because after TLOU2 I decided to go back and finally do these games. I'm on the last one, Thiefs End, right now. They are fun games and tell a great story but when I'm done with them they don't linger with me.
    In terms of level design, I know I'll remember the train and the Himalayan mountains in Uncharted 2, and the Colombian flashback, the ship level, the Rub'al Khali desert from Uncharted 3, as well as the city in Madagascar, the open countryside of the mountains, and Libertalia in Uncharted 4...far more than I will any level in TLOU-2, where the settings and background levels are fairly generic for the most part. TLOU-1 because it had the roadtrip plot from the Uncharted games had many memorable settings and levels too, whereas Seattle in this game is not good.

    It does say something that the level considered the best in TLOU-2 is the flashback level with Joel and Ellie at the museum and not anything in Seattle or for that matter Jackson.

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