Evil counterparts

[Steel Inquisitor]

Barry Allen and Eobard Thawne/Reverse Flash.

Wally West and Hunter Zolomon.

Savitar and Max Mercury.

[Adekis]

The positioning of Deathstroke against Batman has always made my teeth grind a bit.

The lack of intent to make him an evil twin initially is kind of why I like it, but I guess a better comparison to Metalo-as-Evil-Superman would be Bane-as-Evil-Batman, rather than Deathstroke. After all, Bane was originally designed as a Batman foe, where Slade wasn't.

[Agent Z]

The positioning of Deathstroke against Batman has always made my teeth grind a bit. He was not designed as anybody's "evil twin" but as a long-standing mercenary of whose presence we were just becoming aware on his first appearance.

If anything, Deathstroke is a dark Mirror of Marvel's Captain America. The closest DC opposites might be the original Steel or Cadmus' clone of Jim (Guardian) Harper. No disrespect to Adekis' view intended, but Deathstroke was created to stare down a whole team, including a demi-amazon, a cyborg, an alien warrior, a superspeedster, and a witch. Reseating him across from Batman always seemed a distinctive example of Batgodding.

Actually, Deathstroke going up against a team of supers was supposed to be against his M.O. when he first appeared. He made an exception to the Titans because of his grudge against them and he had to use dirty tricks like civilians as meat shields to "win".

I guess that's one way he's a dark mirror Batman - both of them had their capabilities upped way past their original depictions to make them deal with a wider universe.

[DrNewGod]

Actually, Deathstroke going up against a team of supers was supposed to be against his M.O. when he first appeared. He made an exception to the Titans because of his grudge against them and he had to use dirty tricks like civilians as meat shields to "win".

In universe, going against a superteam - indeed, tangling with supers period - was against Deathstroke's previous MO. On the other hand, as a character, that's exactly what he was created for.

I guess that's one way he's a dark mirror Batman - both of them had their capabilities upped way past their original depictions to make them deal with a wider universe.

Durn you! You almost logiced me into admitting people that view Deathstroke as a Dark Batman might have a point. I'd say it might be the opposite. Excepting plot specific-cases, if Bats can handle him one-on-one, I'd say it seems that Deathstroke's abilities have either been dialed back, Batman's have been inflated, or some combination of the two.

[Will Evans]

So what I can gather, there’s no evil counterpart to the Freedom Fighters except Uncle Sam (American Scream).

[DrNewGod]

So what I can gather, there’s no evil counterpart to the Freedom Fighters except Uncle Sam (American Scream).

Assuming by "evil counterpart" in the FF's case, you mean Dark Patriotic Supergroups, there are at least two.

In the Bronze Age Freedom Fighters title, they were put up against a crew called The Crusaders, who were a deliberate pastiche of Marvel's The Invaders as part of a pseudo-crossover.
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At the same time, over at Marvel, Roy Thomas' The Invaders featured a band of Crusaders clearly modeled on The Freedom Fighters. I miss the days when The Big Two had that kind of occasional fun with each other.
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In addition, DC also has a group called The Force of July, who were created as Outsiders villains.
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[Will Evans]

Assuming by "evil counterpart" in the FF's case, you mean Dark Patriotic Supergroups, there are at least two.

In the Bronze Age Freedom Fighters title, they were put up against a crew called The Crusaders, who were a deliberate pastiche of Marvel's The Invaders as part of a pseudo-crossover.
Image.jpg
At the same time, over at Marvel, Roy Thomas' The Invaders featured a band of Crusaders clearly modeled on The Freedom Fighters. I miss the days when The Big Two had that kind of occasional fun with each other.
Image.jpg

In addition, DC also has a group called The Force of July, who were created as Outsiders villains.
images.jpg

If we’re taking groups I only consider evil counterparts, if they’re specifically design to fight their good counterparts.

Ex: Injustice League vs JUstice League.

Or if their origins are purposely the same: U-Foes vs F4, Black Adam Family vs Marvel Family

I don’t count it if their generic schtick is similar (patriot themed).

[DrNewGod]

If we’re taking groups I only consider evil counterparts, if they’re specifically design to fight their good counterparts.

Ex: Injustice League vs JUstice League.

Or if their origins are purposely the same: U-Foes vs F4, Black Adam Family vs Marvel Family

I don’t count it if their generic schtick is similar (patriot themed).

Then the DC Crusaders might still fit (specifically created as adversaries), but they are not a 1:1 match of the FF's abilities the way The Crime Syndicate is of the JL's Big 5. But then, The Frightful Four aren't a 1:1 match of their FF's abilities either.

Still, your call to make.

[Will Evans]

Then the DC Crusaders might still fit (specifically created as adversaries), but they are not a 1:1 match of the FF's abilities the way The Crime Syndicate is of the JL's Big 5. But then, The Frightful Four aren't a 1:1 match of their FF's abilities either.

Still, your call to make.

I agree with you on that then. Especially the more modern day version, with a mixture of First Strike.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

This is difficult because there’s an entire universe of evil counterparts

[Will Evans]

Booster Gold?

Unless we count Supernova.

[DrNewGod]

Does Luke Cage have a mirror? You'd think that would be some kind of Super-Bigot or Uber-Establishmentist, and no such character comes to mind. I mean, sure, there's The Red Skull and Crossbones, but (outside the movies in RS' case) they aren't on Cage's power level, even if they weren't already spoken for by that guy with the shield. There's Master Man, but Cap and The Invaders own him too, and he really doesn't make an easy contrast with Cage's Urban-African-American cultural vibe. There's any number of urban crimelords, but are any of them defined by racial tensions the way Cage is? There are African-American crimelords motivated (or so they tell themselves) by racial injustice, but any at Cage's power level?

[Will Evans]

Does Luke Cage have a mirror? You'd think that would be some kind of Super-Bigot or Uber-Establishmentist, and no such character comes to mind. I mean, sure, there's The Red Skull and Crossbones, but (outside the movies in RS' case) they aren't on Cage's power level, even if they weren't already spoken for by that guy with the shield. There's Master Man, but Cap and The Invaders own him too, and he really doesn't make an easy contrast with Cage's Urban-African-American cultural vibe. There's any number of urban crimelords, but are any of them defined by racial tensions the way Cage is? There are African-American crimelords motivated (or so they tell themselves) by racial injustice, but any at Cage's power level?

Luke’s enemy Gideon Mace was created to be just that.

[Phoenixx9]

Does Luke Cage have a mirror? You'd think that would be some kind of Super-Bigot or Uber-Establishmentist, and no such character comes to mind. I mean, sure, there's The Red Skull and Crossbones, but (outside the movies in RS' case) they aren't on Cage's power level, even if they weren't already spoken for by that guy with the shield. There's Master Man, but Cap and The Invaders own him too, and he really doesn't make an easy contrast with Cage's Urban-African-American cultural vibe. There's any number of urban crimelords, but are any of them defined by racial tensions the way Cage is? There are African-American crimelords motivated (or so they tell themselves) by racial injustice, but any at Cage's power level?

Maybe Warhawk?

[Will Evans]

Warhawk and Power Master (Cruz) as far as powerset. Gideon Mace as far as ideology.

Why are we talking about Marvel characters?