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  1. #61

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    Lot of criticism of mutants lately. You realize that the mirror can be turned around right? Civil War exposed non mutant “heroes” as fascists and supremacists who feel that they are above the laws of baseline humans. Then there’s the literal hitler youth angle of the pro-registration side. How uncomfortable to you want to be?

  2. #62
    Fantastic Member Micabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    That’s fine as long as they aren’t holding mutants prisoner
    There's Krakoan Gates everywhere and the fix is in. We'll give you life/health improving drugs in exchange for mutant free passage to Okkara through the gates we planted in your nations.

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micabe View Post
    I say if mutants can have an active ban on allowing baseline humans on Krakoa then it's only fair that baseline humans prevent mutants from their cities as well.
    They can do it if they want, but then they will cry because the mutants do not sell them miraculous medicines.

    Anyway, it's funny to see the position of the United States.

    In X-Men Gold they want to kick out all the mutants in the country, in Uncanny X-Men they want to exterminate them and now they are angry that they have left and founded their own country.
    Last edited by Glio; 06-29-2020 at 10:52 AM.

  4. #64
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Thunderbird View Post
    Evolution is not so much a race for supremacy as much as it is random change that is limited by the environment. People think that evolution is like a ladder when in reality it is more like a fluid that is poured into the cup that is natural selection.
    That is nicely worded…

    From a scientific theory, evolution has become an ideology… 'survival of the fittest'… an ideology that has been used as a tool to oppress the working class.

    Even more so it's forgetting that in nature there is as much cooperation as there is competition.

  5. #65
    Incredible Member Nazrel's Avatar
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    Deleted...
    Last edited by Nazrel; 06-29-2020 at 12:05 PM.
    Context is king.

    X-23's most basic surface level characteristic that any idiot should grasp: Stoicism.
    I don't demand that her every minor appearance be a nuance in-depth examination of her character, but is it to much to ask she be written in Archetype?! This is storytelling 101! If you want people to stay invested in a character, you need to, at the bare minimum, write them such a way that they can plausibly be believed to be the same character!

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Micabe View Post
    There's Krakoan Gates everywhere and the fix is in. We'll give you life/health improving drugs in exchange for mutant free passage to Okkara through the gates we planted in your nations.
    You act like there aren’t humans or doombots guarding the gates.

  7. #67
    Spectacular Member Knightmare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    You’ve just made a good case for pretty much any American who isn’t part of Antifa being a fascist. Congratulations.
    I don't think I did, but feel free to properly state you're case. Also I'm not American so.... Not very sure I care.

  8. #68
    Fantastic Member Micabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    You act like there aren’t humans or doombots guarding the gates.
    No, I'm acting as if the Okkara bartering system will provide baseline humans with incentive not to guard the gates on an ongoing basis -- allowing mutants who want to leave leave -- but, with the understanding that they can not return or travel to any other nation, planet, and or dimension without the proper Genetic/Visa/Intergalactic Passport after arriving in Okkara.
    Last edited by Micabe; 06-29-2020 at 05:22 PM.

  9. #69
    Mighty Member houndsofluv's Avatar
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    That's all well and good but all the gate-watchers we've seen so far have been there to actively prevent mutants from crossing onto the island

  10. #70
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    It would be interesting to get into the nitty-gritty of the gates themselves. Krakoa has agreements with some nations, and not with others, do the nations they agree with have some sort of emigration/immigration protocols set up around the gates? Are the gates themselves on specially designated land, set aside for this purpose (perhaps purchased by mutants who have legal standing to own or lease property in that nation, and not just plonked down in some random place).

    It would be neat to see someone run naked at a Krakoan portal only to be stopped by armed guards from his birth nation, who insist he's got to fill out some emigration papers first (and held while they check to make sure he's not dodging any legal jeopardy in the process, like an outstanding warrant...), but otherwise, is free to 'self-deport.'

    Ditto, there are surely a few mutants in various nations who wouldn't mind a do-over, and would step through a portal to escape crushing debt or going to jail or other consequences of a lifetime of bad decisions (perhaps even abandoning unwanted responsibilities, like children or marriages), and that would cause all sorts of headaches for Krakoa, as their standing with the nations that *don't* hate them is plummeting, and all sorts of morally and ethically dubious folk (who *happen* to be mutants) are seeing them as a 'get out of consequences / debt / jail free' card are trickling onto the island, somehow convinced that on Krakoa, they get to just live in an endless party on a beach 24/7 and everything is going to be handed to them and they don't have to work or anything...

  11. #71
    Fantastic Member Micabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by houndsofluv View Post
    That's all well and good but all the gate-watchers we've seen so far have been there to actively prevent mutants from crossing onto the island
    If that's true --> then I honestly haven't seen any "Gate" watchers in the pages yet --> and, which side of the gates are you referring to?
    Last edited by Micabe; 06-29-2020 at 05:38 PM.

  12. #72
    Mighty Member houndsofluv's Avatar
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    maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying . We've explicitly seen cases where humans actively prevent mutants from crossing the gates in Marauders and New Mutants off the top of my head, I think there've been references to this happening elsewhere .. but its one of the main reasons the Marauders exist rn , the other being the trade of resources

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    Lot of criticism of mutants lately. You realize that the mirror can be turned around right? Civil War exposed non mutant “heroes” as fascists and supremacists who feel that they are above the laws of baseline humans. Then there’s the literal hitler youth angle of the pro-registration side. How uncomfortable to you want to be?
    Lately? Hickman did a major overhaul that was very controversial and many subjects bought up here that the X-men are allied with have been person non grata to anyone with a pulse in the comics before Hickman got into comics. 'Mutants' are a species, and that includes a wide variety of monsters. It's incredible that as readers we should overlook these monsters, as if they were harmless puppies, when everyone - including Krakoa - knows that they're not.

    You'll note that when this occurred it was titled "Civil War," this is important because the tensions became so blinding people went to war over it unlike in Krakoa. The Pro-Registration side were filled with people who were doing super-villainous things (as well as being out of character!) that when they did them they got continuous backlash from their friends, family and allies in the super-hero community. The writers and editors were not as coordinated as with Hickman's X-men, and various writers went overboard with characterising the pro-Registration side because they didn't want readers to sympathise with them and this worked! Numerous characters rebelled against Carol Danvers, Tony Stark and Reed Richards for what they did. They got into heated arguments and fist fights. Carol switched sides when she discovered the implications of what she was doing. It was a divided community, they didn't unquestionably follow Tony like the X-men are doing with Xavier at the moment. And no, a few moments of being sad and questioning things doesn't cut it. A major moment in "Civil War" was captain America breaking out of a SHIELD Helicarrier because they were shooting at him. Krakoa hasn't got a single moment like this from the X-men. The Avengers broke up into two groups, one hunted by authorities and eventually Norman Osborn (which the X-men forged an alliance with!) it was a mess politically and socially for the super-heroes.

    Look at Krakoa, the early stages are of Xavier welcoming the worst of the worst villains like they're old friends.

    Did you read Avengers: The Initative? The students were all uncomfortable there. A plot line was showing how the Initaive was wrong by turning the carefree Cloud 9 into a cold blooded super soldier and covering up MVP's death by the staff. Readers weren't meant to blindly go along with the Initiative, they stressed this again and again. And Krkaoa followed their lead by employing a Nazi super-villain, who was absolutely loathed by everyone, especially Hank Pym. Sinister and Apocalypse are an afterthought to Xavier.

    Do you want mutantkind and humanity to live together peacefully or would you rather mutant kind posture humanity into submission? Because bringing Magneto and Apocalypse to a negotiation is telling every human Krkaoa abides by their past activities and will use them as ambassadors to scare anyone into doing what they say. What a wonderful country you have there, shame if something were to happen to it.

    Do you truly condemn both sides for oppressing people and ruining lives or do you give one side a pass because they have an x-gene? It's unsettling I have to ask this, since many people don't get it. The choices aren't mutants = good and humans = bad.
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 06-29-2020 at 08:51 PM.

  14. #74
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Lately? Hickman did a major overhaul that was very controversial and many subjects bought up here that the X-men are allied with have been person non grata to anyone with a pulse in the comics before Hickman got into comics. 'Mutants' are a species, and that includes a wide variety of monsters. It's incredible that as readers we should overlook these monsters, as if they were harmless puppies, when everyone - including Krakoa - knows that they're not.

    You'll note that when this occurred it was titled "Civil War," this is important because the tensions became so blinding people went to war over it unlike in Krakoa. The Pro-Registration side were filled with people who were doing super-villainous things (as well as being out of character!) that when they did them they got continuous backlash from their friends, family and allies in the super-hero community. The writers and editors were not as coordinated as with Hickman's X-men, and various writers went overboard with characterising the pro-Registration side because they didn't want readers to sympathise with them and this worked! Numerous characters rebelled against Carol Danvers, Tony Stark and Reed Richards for what they did. They got into heated arguments and fist fights. Carol switched sides when she discovered the implications of what she was doing. It was a divided community, they didn't unquestionably follow Tony like the X-men are doing with Xavier at the moment. And no, a few moments of being sad and questioning things doesn't cut it. A major moment in "Civil War" was captain America breaking out of a SHIELD Helicarrier because they were shooting at him. Krakoa hasn't got a single moment like this from the X-men. The Avengers broke up into two groups, one hunted by authorities and eventually Norman Osborn (which the X-men forged an alliance with!) it was a mess politically and socially for the super-heroes.

    Look at Krakoa, the early stages are of Xavier welcoming the worst of the worst villains like they're old friends.

    Did you read Avengers: The Initative? The students were all uncomfortable there. A plot line was showing how the Initaive was wrong by turning the carefree Cloud 9 into a cold blooded super soldier and covering up MVP's death by the staff. Readers weren't meant to blindly go along with the Initiative, they stressed this again and again. And Krkaoa followed their lead by employing a Nazi super-villain, who was absolutely loathed by everyone, especially Hank Pym. Sinister and Apocalypse are an afterthought to Xavier.

    Do you want mutantkind and humanity to live together peacefully or would you rather mutant kind posture humanity into submission? Because bringing Magneto and Apocalypse to a negotiation is telling every human Krkaoa abides by their past activities and will use them as ambassadors to scare anyone into doing what they say. What a wonderful country you have there, shame if something were to happen to it.

    Do you truly condemn both sides for oppressing people and ruining lives or do you give one side a pass because they have an x-gene? It's unsettling I have to ask this, since many people don't get it. The choices aren't mutants = good and humans = bad.
    Um yeah...

    You seem to be one of the only folks that think that
    GrindrStone(D)

  15. #75
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    ...

    Do you truly condemn both sides for oppressing people and ruining lives or do you give one side a pass because they have an x-gene?
    It's unsettling I have to ask this, since many people don't get it. The choices aren't mutants = good and humans = bad.
    Just point this out...

    Lots of folks aren't even addressing this nonsense because it has right around "Nothing..." to do with what is actually going on in the books.

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