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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Just point this out...

    Lots of folks aren't even addressing this nonsense because it has right around "Nothing..." to do with what is actually going on in the books.
    I'm not talking about the books directly, I'm talking about the posters reactions to events in the books.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Um yeah...

    You seem to be one of the only folks that think that
    That's the position I've been arguing with since I got here. Any nuance I bring falls on deaf ears.

  3. #78
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    I'm not talking about the books directly, I'm talking about the posters reactions to events in the books.
    Which is the entire reason that this bit doesn't really get taken very seriously.

    Most folks are talking about what is actually going on in the books, and don't have much use for an entirely separate discussion that revolves around a single person's incorrect version of what is happening in the very same books.

    Never mind having that same incorrect version involve said person incorrectly explaining what is going on in books that are not even on the stands yet.

  4. #79
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Which is the entire reason that this bit doesn't really get taken very seriously.

    Most folks are talking about what is actually going on in the books, and don't have much use for an entirely separate discussion that revolves around a single person's incorrect version of what is happening in the very same books.

    Never mind having that same incorrect version involve said person incorrectly explaining what is going on in books that are not even on the stands yet.
    Somehow you've made the illogical logical
    GrindrStone(D)

  5. #80
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Which is the entire reason that this bit doesn't really get taken very seriously.

    Most folks are talking about what is actually going on in the books, and don't have much use for an entirely separate discussion that revolves around a single person's incorrect version of what is happening in the very same books.

    Never mind having that same incorrect version involve said person incorrectly explaining what is going on in books that are not even on the stands yet.
    What strikes me is among those who praise Hickman is this reluctance to have a higher point of view… like all the things that existed, happened before, didn't.
    I suppose that, in a way, you pay for a comic, you want to enjoy this comic, so you agree to be manipulated, pleased by it… you find the qualities and overlook the flaws. After all, you don't buy the comic to analyze it.
    Oh, by the way, I agree with all Steel Inquisitor said, I can't believe that anyone enjoys this run, it's so simplistic.

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    What strikes me is among those who praise Hickman is this reluctance to have a higher point of view… like all the things that existed, happened before, didn't.
    I suppose that, in a way, you pay for a comic, you want to enjoy this comic, so you agree to be manipulated, pleased by it… you find the qualities and overlook the flaws. After all, you don't buy the comic to analyze it.
    Oh, by the way, I agree with all Steel Inquisitor said, I can't believe that anyone enjoys this run, it's so simplistic.
    You're not even reading it, Zelena.

  7. #82
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I can't believe that anyone enjoys this run, it's so simplistic.
    The run is so simplistic that they are multiple threads discussing different aspects of things and before you say they are threads all the time that is what forum is I will challenge you find a thread about the deeper themes or plotline of X-men Gold or Extraordinary X-men. Anyways that is your opinion you can feel that way if you want to.

  8. #83
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Guys, if you want to talk about your fanfics about what is happening in Krakoa, find another place.

    I would prefer if here we talked about the comics that exist.

  9. #84
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    What strikes me is among those who praise Hickman is this reluctance to have a higher point of view… like all the things that existed, happened before, didn't.
    I suppose that, in a way, you pay for a comic, you want to enjoy this comic, so you agree to be manipulated, pleased by it… you find the qualities and overlook the flaws. After all, you don't buy the comic to analyze it.
    Oh, by the way, I agree with all Steel Inquisitor said, I can't believe that anyone enjoys this run, it's so simplistic.
    One reader's point of view...

    I have read it and analyzed it. Get that it is not everyone's cup of tea.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Which is the entire reason that this bit doesn't really get taken very seriously.
    Don't be disingenuous. You're not taking it seriously because you agree with them and nothing more. It's valid to discuss how readers interpret material from the media, and I have been discussing the media, as well, except that has to be put aside to create the straw man.

    Most folks are talking about what is actually going on in the books, and don't have much use for an entirely separate discussion that revolves around a single person's incorrect version of what is happening in the very same books.
    They want their interpretation of their books to be correct and don't like being called on it when they're wrong, like conflating monsters like Apocalypse as if he were a sex god rather than a monster. I'm not incorrect in this, and the projection involved with fanon has been noticeable. It's fine to like and make fanfic, but the blurring the lines between fanon and canon here has been going on for a long while.

    Never mind having that same incorrect version involve said person incorrectly explaining what is going on in books that are not even on the stands yet.
    I don't need to comment on what's going on happen next when I have all I need from what we have. The contradictory narrative between Krakoa being a luxurious tourist resort to all races and closed off entirely for "security reasons" but no comment on this in your posts, among other things. Ignorance truly is bliss. It's been enlightening seeing the hypocrisy that mutants are allowed which "flat scans," which would be everyone in this forum, be condemned. Allying with HYDRA, Norman Osborn, Apocalypse, Magneto, Exodus, cartels - that's when the only grey is celebrated.

  11. #86
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Don't be disingenuous. You're not taking it seriously because you agree with them and nothing more. It's valid to discuss how readers interpret material from the media, and I have been discussing the media, as well, except that has to be put aside to create the straw man.

    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    ...

    They want their interpretation of their books to be correct and don't like being called on it when they're wrong, like conflating monsters like Apocalypse as if he were a sex god rather than a monster. I'm not incorrect in this, and the projection involved with fanon has been noticeable. It's fine to like and make fanfic, but the blurring the lines between fanon and canon here has been going on for a long while.

    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    ....

    I don't need to comment on what's going on happen next when I have all I need from what we have. The contradictory narrative between Krakoa being a luxurious tourist resort to all races and closed off entirely for "security reasons" but no comment on this in your posts, among other things. Ignorance truly is bliss. It's been enlightening seeing the hypocrisy that mutants are allowed which "flat scans," which would be everyone in this forum, be condemned. Allying with HYDRA, Norman Osborn, Apocalypse, Magneto, Exodus, cartels - that's when the only grey is celebrated.
    To put it simply, all of this is just wrong.

    You are trying to point to that folks don't want to be called on that they are wrong when your entire version of the whole thing hinges on everyone else accepting that your own view of what is really happening is actually what is going on.

    No one should feel the need to take it seriously past that realization.

    While folks can't really stop you from coming from that point of view, there is no reason that they should entertain it as if it is even remotely the most realistic version of what is going on in the books.

    Never mind that every instance of "This Is Not What Is Actually In Any Of The Books..." is repeatedly meant with that folks are doing things to you.

    - They are creating straw men...
    - They are gaslighting...

    and so on.

    None of that is happening. Folks are simply trying to talk about what is actually happening in the books that have been released.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magyves View Post
    Is Magneto right? Mutants deserved to inherent the earth because he felt mutants were physically superior.
    Magneto is a supremacist fool, all the mutants deserve is to live safely in peace on Earth, just like the sapiens deserve to live safely in peace on Earth, or like the inhumans, the atlanteans and any of the other sub-groups of Humanity.
    They Don't deserve to inherit the Earth any more than any of those other sub-groups.
    In fact, acting upon that kind of mentality would be cause for said other sub-groups to protect themselves from the supremacist warmongers.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    Mutants are an evolutionary step for humans!

    To truly advance the homo sapiens race, it would be recommended for humans and mutants to breed with each other as often as possible to create diversity and variations in the gene pool that can help encourage the development of highly advanced/survivability traits!

    It does seem that telepathy often breeds true in many cases so this may be a dominant mutant ability! Whereas Magneto resulted in 3 children with only one having his powers, and the other two having chaos reality manipulation and speed!

    A perfect example of telepathy advancing in the gene pool:
    Professor Xavier < Legion
    Jean Grey < Rachel Summers = Nathan Summers < Jonathan Richards

    It is very possible for a mutant and a human to mate and have a mutant, so human/mutant pairings should definitely be encouraged to help advance the mutant race!

    Additionally, human pairings are often resulting in mutants being born! This seems to indicate that the X-Gene is present in a large percentage of the human race and though it may not be activated in the majority of humans, it seems to become stronger as the generations progress!

    This could be an indication why in the 811 Earth, the Sentinels rounded up all the mutants and labelled them with M for Mutant as they shipped them off for enslavement, experimentation, or execution in the camps! However, a large portion of humanity was also labelled with an A for Abnormal indicating the presence of the X-Gene in their DNA, and the Abnormals were also shipped to the camps for enslavement, experimentation, and execution!

    All being with meta abilities from either magic or cosmic intervention were also targeted for extermination by the Sentinels because they could produce Abnormal or Mutant offspring!

    This is the great fallacy of the Sentinel Program, there is no pure human race, the human race has a large percentage of the population carrying a latent of nascent form of the X-Gene, which means the only way to stop the evolution to a complete race of mutants is to exterminate every single living being that has an activated or nascent X-Gene!

    This is not unexpected because racists always believe that there is a "true pure race" this is a fault in their belief systems! Skin color itself is genetic mutation to increase human survivability under different sunlight conditions! Black or Brown skin in equatorial regions to increase resistance to skin cancer and to decrease rate of absorption of solar energy! White or paler skin colors in northern or southern seasonal regions to increase absorption of solar energy and to fuel increased production of vitamin D in the body!

    In the end homo sapiens is a mutation from the previous species which was a mutation of a previous species and so on backwards to the beginning of evolution through amino acid production in the Earth's water systems that resulted in the first bacteria forming!

    In the Marvel Universe the Celestials seeded the Earth in its early beginnings and that has influenced the existence of a few different races over the years who have survived with similar power sets to mutants! But the X-Gene itself is a direct evolution of homo sapiens!

    One could even say that homo sapiens was always on the path to advancing the entire race to the X-Gene! Combined with human ability to procreate quickly, this causes an accelerated advancement of the human race, which obviously leads to the endgame desired by the Celestials.

    One could say that Rachel Summers, Nathan Summers, Proteus, Legion, Jamie Braddock, and Franklin Richards are technically very close to, or have achieved the state needed to become eternal humans through their X-Genes! With Franklin Richards obviously being one of the most powerful beings to be born on the Marvel Earth!

    Exterminating humanity would be a mistake, because to further the mutant race in the fastest possible way, it is actually more highly recommended to encourage interbreeding between mutants and humans to increase the incidence of mutants born on Earth!
    What a load of nonsense.

    For starter, mutants and sapiens are humans, so it's nonsensical to speak of a "mutant race" as if it was separated from Humanity, it's factually a part of it.
    Second of all, that whole speech of yours about breeding is making my skin crawl!! it feels like you are speaking of broodmares' instead of human beings here, even if in a fictional setting…

    I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't intend to push such a toxic narrative on us.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

  14. #89
    Astonishing Member CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    What a load of nonsense.

    For starter, mutants and sapiens are humans, so it's nonsensical to speak of a "mutant race" as if it was separated from Humanity, it's factually a part of it.
    Second of all, that whole speech of yours about breeding is making my skin crawl!! it feels like you are speaking of broodmares' instead of human beings here, even if in a fictional setting…

    I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't intend to push such a toxic narrative on us.
    Pretty sure by humans they mean baselines and nothing they said was wrong. It's always been the case.

    Instead of letting humanity progress into what it was always going to become they decided to create robot smurfs that eventually get eaten by the Phalanx because naturally they become an evolutionary dead end. No better than if Ultron was in charge.

    You could honestly call it self inflicted genocide.
    The Krakoans are EEEvil!

    THEY MUST BE STOPPED!

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    To put it simply, all of this is just wrong.

    You are trying to point to that folks don't want to be called on that they are wrong when your entire version of the whole thing hinges on everyone else accepting that your own view of what is really happening is actually what is going on.

    No one should feel the need to take it seriously past that realization.
    It's an argument for how we interpret the material, we all do that.

    While folks can't really stop you from coming from that point of view, there is no reason that they should entertain it as if it is even remotely the most realistic version of what is going on in the books.
    They don't do that simply because they have a narrative/fanon and don't want anyone to "rock the boat." Everyone must agree with the popular consensus or risk peer pressure to force them to getting back in line. Don't ask questions, and definitely don't question Krakoa when they make decisions they'd be angry at humans doing. They want to live in fantasy, not what the books are actually doing. Bringing up the facts in the books just makes people uncomfortable. It's not possible they might be wrong about something.

    Never mind that every instance of "This Is Not What Is Actually In Any Of The Books..." is repeatedly meant with that folks are doing things to you.

    - They are creating straw men...
    - They are gaslighting...

    and so on.
    When they do that they deserve to be called out. Stop normalising those tactics.

    None of that is happening. Folks are simply trying to talk about what is actually happening in the books that have been released.
    They aren't. What happens in the comics changes as a priority as long as what they think fits their narrative. Facts don't enter into it. For instance, Apocalypse has betrayed the X-men in Excalibur and despite this there are narratives that he's a sex god and that's when isn't ignored entirely. They may as well be talking about Beak in discussions when mutants are bought up when they do monstrous acts. I'd be more forgiving if this was just being oblivious but it's not that, they know the history of these characters and defend them like they're saints. This is why they get comments that they're not X-men fans but X-villain fans.

    Edit: Being fans of super-villains is fine, of course, but I don't know what the word is for people who agree with the beliefs of super-villains. That's the real problem. When they fought the X-men they sided against the X-men.
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 06-30-2020 at 03:48 AM.

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