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  1. #1
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    Default Revamp a Wonder Woman villain

    Here's the scenario: DC has done yet another reboot, and now you have the opportunity to revamp Diana's Rogues gallery with no baggage. What do you do?

    I'll start with an example. One of the characters in the conversation for Diana's archenemesis: Circe.



    To me, Villains need a strong point of thematic contrast with the hero, and for Circe and Diana, that contrast would be Compassion. Diana cares about everyone, She's willing to help anyone. Circe, by contrast, is a hedonist. She cares about herself first, a small number of family second, and could give a rat's ass about anyone else. She's essentially a magic female Rick Sanchez.

  2. #2
    Mighty Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Hmm. Kirby originally intended the Old Gods in his Fourth World stories to have been the Norse Pantheon so building off that and connecting to a WW villain I'd make Gundra one of the few (maybe only in this universe) survivors of Ragnarok. Her motivations being unable to accept the destruction of her people, she goes about trying to revive it or turn Earth into a New Asgard.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Hmm. Kirby originally intended the Old Gods in his Fourth World stories to have been the Norse Pantheon so building off that and connecting to a WW villain I'd make Gundra one of the few (maybe only in this universe) survivors of Ragnarok. Her motivations being unable to accept the destruction of her people, she goes about trying to revive it or turn Earth into a New Asgard.
    What if she was obsessed with carrying out her mission as a valkyrie even after the destruction of her pantheon has rendered it moot? Play her as someone unable to change with the times.

  4. #4
    The Last Dragon masterwitcher88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    What if she was obsessed with carrying out her mission as a valkyrie even after the destruction of her pantheon has rendered it moot? Play her as someone unable to change with the times.
    Like... she keeps bringing fallen warriors to Valhalla except Valhalla is in ruin, the souls have no true peace after death, and it messes with the balance of life and death pissing off other ferrymen of the dead.

    Maybe she could find and wield Mjolnir and Gungnir as part of her arsenal.

    I had this concept with her trying to bring back her Valkyrie sisters (Sigrun, Rota, etc...) and in the process she meets Dr. Cyber. So, Cyber creates new bodies for them, made from fourth world level technology, and Gundra takes her sisters' soul essence and places them in the bodies. Now you got cyborg undead Valkyries that use old Norse magic and weaponry. I think its a pretty unique concept.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    Here's the scenario: DC has done yet another reboot, and now you have the opportunity to revamp Diana's Rogues gallery with no baggage. What do you do?

    I'll start with an example. One of the characters in the conversation for Diana's archenemesis: Circe.



    To me, Villains need a strong point of thematic contrast with the hero, and for Circe and Diana, that contrast would be Compassion. Diana cares about everyone, She's willing to help anyone. Circe, by contrast, is a hedonist. She cares about herself first, a small number of family second, and could give a rat's ass about anyone else. She's essentially a magic female Rick Sanchez.
    Isn't that how Circe is usually depicted(minus the family, not sure if she has any)?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    Like... she keeps bringing fallen warriors to Valhalla except Valhalla is in ruin, the souls have no true peace after death, and it messes with the balance of life and death pissing off other ferrymen of the dead.

    Maybe she could find and wield Mjolnir and Gungnir as part of her arsenal.

    I had this concept with her trying to bring back her Valkyrie sisters (Sigrun, Rota, etc...) and in the process she meets Dr. Cyber. So, Cyber creates new bodies for them, made from fourth world level technology, and Gundra takes her sisters' soul essence and places them in the bodies. Now you got cyborg undead Valkyries that use old Norse magic and weaponry. I think its a pretty unique concept.
    I like this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    Isn't that how Circe is usually depicted(minus the family, not sure if she has any)?
    I wouldn't know, only thing with her I've read is the 80th anniversary special

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Angle Man for me.

    The New52 “Angelo Bend” was okay, but I always envisioned Angle Man as that costumes criminal Diana begrudgingly respects, if only because he would be so damn hard to catch; a combination of Captain Cold in terms of power (his Angler is a very powerful weapon, right up there w. Cold Guns or mirror guns or other cheesy gimmicks not to sleep on), and Marvel’s Batroc the Leaper, in that Diana would enjoy battling him.

  8. #8
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    The First Born's backstory, like Connor MacLeod's foe, the Kurgan's, is one that sets him on a fated collision, with the hero! I think it is one of the best origin stories for a WW villain.

    I think Diana's Kurgan should be (top, below) ..Queen Clea. Retconning her, as the First Born's daughter, ..surviving Zeus's destruction of her father's kingdom sets Clea on her immortal path, as a conqueror, AND a short-text explanation for her immortality. No longer a native Atlantaean, Queen Clea would have ruled many ancient kingdoms, throughout time and space, before her introduction in Venturia, ..and that would make Clea a broader character. Wonder Woman, determined to protect mankind from the fate that befell the Amazons, needs an unkillable female archenemy, who will always come out of nowhere and threaten that which is most precious to her.

    So, what would that look like?

    My Clea seems more of a Vandal Savage sort, than the Kurgan was, and I see her alternating between her signature armor and contemporary clothing - liking it, very much, in fact. While I like that Clea is an ancient, like Circe, I also like that she is more of a physical character, like the Cheetah. With Clea, we can expect apocalyptic, bare-knuckled brawls and sword battles. When I imagine an apocalyptic scene, with Diana battling her perennial archenemy in the flaming ruins, I think that foe needs to be a physical match for her. I think Clea, combining what is best in Circe and Cheetah, could become that archenemy.

    As with Cheetah, I think Clea would benefit from being opened up and broader, such that writers can do more things, with her. Junking the Atlantaean origin, which makes her feel more like an Aquaman antagonist, might be the biggest improvement we could give her. It would make her a stronger, more versatile character, if only because there's so much you can imagine doing with her, in a story, without it.

    The biggest weakness of my retconned Clea, as with the present character, ..is that she seems irredeemable. She will never join the JLA, never be Diana's friend. Like her father and Highlander's Kurgan, her sole motivation will be the wholesale subjugation of all sentient life on Earth, ..even Wonder Dog. She is a godless, blood-drinking monster, who will pile our rotting corpses up into the clouds, until she conquers the world, because that's all that makes her happy, ..and there is nothing Diana or anyone can do to change. In that, a long history with Diana would offer very few surprises for readers.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 06-30-2020 at 01:19 PM. Reason: image added

  9. #9
    Mighty Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    What if she was obsessed with carrying out her mission as a valkyrie even after the destruction of her pantheon has rendered it moot? Play her as someone unable to change with the times.
    Kind of what I was going for. Idea I had were her trying to revive dead figures from Norse mythology using either dark/occult magic or comic book pseudo-science (so alliances with other WW rogues) in attempts to artificially turn back history.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Mutant God's Avatar
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    White Magician - A small time magician who made a deal the Dark Gods to grant him great power and turns out to be a spy for Godwatch or Villainy Inc

    Kung - An elderly martial artist mercenary who always sneaks away form a fight with Wonder Woman
    Last edited by Mutant God; 06-30-2020 at 01:12 PM.
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    Skeeter: No! I wanna know som'in from the "O5" How come you cant go back to your own timeline in the first place and how come when Reed Richards "fixed" the universe you wasnt put back and how come the changes that happn to you dont happn to your present day selves?

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  11. #11
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    I've said this in another thread, but a character I would like to see revamped is The Mask. I would use her basis, as I understand it, for the foundation of her revamp. She is a battered wife, but in my version, she is presumed to be killed by her husband. Ares, however, grants her the power to transform into red smoke - this is both to illustrate her intense rage and to be a symbol of corrupted love. As this newly powered villainous, The Mask is a serial killer who kills men who have wronged their wives by transforming into smoke, suffocating them, and then placing a mask over their face as her signature.

    In my mind, this should be a highly decorative mask - think like a Day of the Dead mask. Her color scheme should be red and white or red and black, and I would also make her Latina.

    I like how The Mask, in this revamp, is a street-level villain small enough to give Steve Trevor and the Goodfellas (is that their name? It's been a while since I've seen the movie) a challenge, her ability to transform into smoke still makes her a credible threat to Wonder Woman, and she also has a tie to Greek mythology without truly being born from it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Kind of what I was going for. Idea I had were her trying to revive dead figures from Norse mythology using either dark/occult magic or comic book pseudo-science (so alliances with other WW rogues) in attempts to artificially turn back history.
    Another element could be that she regularly attempts to murder soldiers, to bolster the ranks of Valhalla, which was part of her job before the fall of Asgard.

  13. #13
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    I think Diana would be in my Clea's way, and that their relationship wouldn't go much farther, than that. While I can't imagine Diana finding any humanity in her, I can imagine Clea developing the sort of grudging admiration of Diana that Circe has, ..somewhere down a very long road.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Hmm. Kirby originally intended the Old Gods in his Fourth World stories to have been the Norse Pantheon so building off that and connecting to a WW villain I'd make Gundra one of the few (maybe only in this universe) survivors of Ragnarok. Her motivations being unable to accept the destruction of her people, she goes about trying to revive it or turn Earth into a New Asgard.
    Do you see your Gundra living as a spirit, inside the new Warmaster, even possessing her, ..or in a physical body of her own?

    I love how you incorporated the Ragnarok into her origin, by the way. Do you see Gundra, in any form, being Diana's natural archenemy?
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 06-30-2020 at 04:27 PM.

  14. #14
    Mighty Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    Another element could be that she regularly attempts to murder soldiers, to bolster the ranks of Valhalla, which was part of her job before the fall of Asgard.
    Yeah, that could be interesting. Maybe she's incurred the wrath of other afterlife figures because she's been pillaging the souls of people who didn't worship or believe in her pantheon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    Do you see your Gundra living as a spirit, inside the new Warmaster, even possessing her, ..or in a physical body of her own?

    I love how you incorporated the Ragnarok into her origin, by the way. Do you see Gundra, in any form, being Diana's natural archenemy?
    Hmm, I guess she could be if writers wanted to play up the whole "Amazon vs. Valkyrie" but she'd probably serve better as the evil mirror counterpart like Bizzaro or Zod than what they've been trying to do with Grail.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Lately, I’ve been working on Eviless, Dark Angel, Osira, Duke Dazam, and a couple other surprises.

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