What are the main sticking points within Superman fandom?

[jamgut]

Discussions among Superman fans tend to come down to disagreements over a handful of key issues.

Superboy vs Superman

I think history has shown that if you want to have a Legion of Super-Heroes, you can't remove Superboy from his history, but I very much appreciate the thinking that Superman's arrival into the public eye should not be preceded by the exact same thing, only younger. I think the best way to handle this is making his adventures as a kid a clandestine thing and keep his costumed adventures as Superboy in the 30th Century.

I think trips to the 30th century as a teen makes for a better origin of the super-suit. The Legion takes Clark to the future in his civies and then helps him design some "play clothes" using 30th century materials.

[scary harpy]

I don't think there really is such a thing as overpowered. Superman should always be Can Do

Yeah I certainly don't mind a powerfully written Superman. He doesn't have to be Silver Age levels of power but moving planets and flying faster than light shouldn't be outside his limits. You can still use much less powerful villains in an interesting way like the Prankster or Toyman with the right writer and story.

This is exactly why we will never agree.

Some want to read The Adventures of a new Greek God in red underpants...and I have zero interest in these stories.

[scary harpy]

Yeah I certainly don't mind a powerfully written Superman. He doesn't have to be Silver Age levels of power but moving planets and flying faster than light shouldn't be outside his limits.

Moving planets and faster-than-light flight were his Silver Age levels of power.

You can still use much less powerful villains in an interesting way like the Prankster or Toyman with the right writer and story.

If you mean as interesting as a mortal versus a Greek God, then, yes, there are a number of Greek myths that are interesting.

[Ra-El]

This is exactly why we will never agree.

Some want to read The Adventures of a new Greek God in red underpants...and I have zero interest in these stories.

Marvel do just fine with Thor, the only thing that makes Superman overpowered is that DC aparently only knows how to tell stories about Lex Luthor.

[godisawesome]

His power level honestly can fluctuate more wildly than the supporting cast and characterization choices to me; I honestly think the power level’s reception is far more dependent on how well the writer handles the conflict than on consistency.

My problem with, say, Superman The Movie is that the conflict with the nukes, the real estate scheme, and Lois’s death, is that Superman turning back time is a lame Deus Ex Machina cheat at the end of that story.

In comparison, I actually don’t mind the ending of All Star Superman in regards to it resolving the main conflict - *there* my issues lie with finding the personality of Superman less interesting (I’m a guy who think he should be Clark Kent at his core, but Clark Kent is still the guy who would comfort the young woman on the ledge.)

I’d agree with the OP’s ideas about where most of the real debates are, because most of those differences create very different “adaptations” that can!t exactly be blended together to everyone’s satisfaction - how much sincerity and substance there is to Clark Kent, for instance, determines the entire personality of the character, and how many Kryptonans survived has massive impact on the story.

I would *also* agree that Lois and Clark’s relationship is actually one of the more adaptable and bendable elements - to this day, I’d argue the crowning issue of the New 52 reboot was not having young single-and-ready-to-mingle Clark and Lois doing their thing, while having the “modern” Superman be married and partnered with her in investigations.

[scary harpy]

Marvel do just fine with Thor, the only thing that makes Superman overpowered is that DC aparently only knows how to tell stories about Lex Luthor.

Agreed. Agreed.

[Kuwagaton]

Pre Crisis Post Crisis is kinda the catch-all. His relationship with the parents, whether the Kents live, if he's really Clark or not, his relationship status, and his power level all fall into that. Making him more like one side makes him better or worse given the preference.

[manwhohaseverything]

Pre Crisis Post Crisis is kinda the catch-all. His relationship with the parents, whether the Kents live, if he's really Clark or not, his relationship status, and his power level all fall into that. Making him more like one side makes him better or worse given the preference.

There is also the question of competence. Do people mean by powerlevel to make character competent or do they really want a uber powerful guy? For me, the problem with postcrisis is how incompetent he is written,not his powerlevel. He just doesn't come of as a champion, His naivety doubles that.

[Frontier]

Marvel do just fine with Thor, the only thing that makes Superman overpowered is that DC aparently only knows how to tell stories about Lex Luthor.

Thor is incredibly dependent on the writer. His current writer is giving him tons of feats but in Avengers he can barely accomplish anything without getting knocked around and the writer of said Avengers book used to portray him as being practically useless without a hammer.

[Johnny Thunders!]

Jason Aaron’s Thor has been amazing and just like Hickmans FF, All Star Superman is baked in the DNA. Superman is a polymath! I think that is a sticking point. Plus feats, and the type of feat, that seems inconsistent. To me Superman is like Prince he may not be the best at any of the 27 instruments he plays, but on any night he can outplay the best fill in the blank instrumentalists on their own instrument. That’s why to me, he can out swim Aquaman.

[Kuwagaton]

Agreed on how his powers compare... but as a Thor fan, I'd say Aaron's heights don't quite cover his lows.

There is also the question of competence. Do people mean by powerlevel to make character competent or do they really want a uber powerful guy? For me, the problem with postcrisis is how incompetent he is written,not his powerlevel. He just doesn't come of as a champion, His naivety doubles that.

Many writers were reluctant to use Superman, I'd have to imagine because they'd just write their way into a corner. Writing a challenge would usually involve just trying to ignore plot holes.

The competency issue is ironic because taking away super intelligence, the result of pedigree and endowment, meant that he had to be more clever as his own individual vs what was inherent. So much is just an offshoot of power level, like simply moving a planet at convenience or flying back in time a million years. In the end the competence had the same range though: whatever the writer wants.

[Ra-El]

Thor is incredibly dependent on the writer. His current writer is giving him tons of feats but in Avengers he can barely accomplish anything without getting knocked around and the writer of said Avengers book used to portray him as being practically useless without a hammer.

Oh I know what Aaron did, but the problem with Aaron's Thor, imo, are more conected with his views on religion and masculinity than with the characters power levels, he needed to show that Thor insecurity and Odin misogyny made they weak, so they got their asses kicked alot. And Avengers is a team book, is expected that supposed power houses like Thor to lose so Captain America can save the day, is the same with Superman on the JL.

[Will Evans]

The Daily Planet.


How do you keep the Daily Planet these days, when newspapers are downsizing?

News nowadays is in the moment. Especially online. Or even TV news. Rather than waiting on a printing press.
Newspaper journalism now is quite different than 1988 and especially 1938.



How do you do Jimmy Olsen when we have digital cameras now?

[Kuwagaton]

Too true. It's the weirdest thing in terms of relevance, in that the DP was replaced almost 50 years ago. Brought back and it's not like DC has to be so realistic but that's very telling.

[witchboy]

Newspapers are still around, but they are dying. The Planet going digital would make sense.
Clark going public in his identity may be influenced by this in real life. If/when the secret identity returns, Clark may be an online journalist, or start a new career. He and Lois no longer need to work together to be together.